toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they chan

[glorydaz]

1 Paul, a slave of Jesus the Anointed One, who is called an Apostle, and who was set aside for the good news of God, 2 which He promised through His Prophets in the Holy Scriptures 3 that tell about His Son, who came in the flesh from the seed of David, 4 and who proved to be God's Son in a powerful way, when he (by [God's] Holy Breath) was resurrected from the dead…yes, Jesus the Anointed One and our Lord, 5 through whom we received loving care and a commission that we have obeyed, so that all the nations might have faith in his name, 6 from which you've also become called ones who belong to Jesus the Anointed. 7 To all in Rome, God's loved ones who were called to be holy. May you have favor and peace from God, our Father, and from the Lord Jesus, the Anointed.

Paul clarified who his audience was in the first 7 verses and clearly, they were believers who "belonged to the Christ."
The same audience is being addressed in chapter 11 when Paul says:

Clear to you maybe, but if you think everyone Paul was writing to were believers I'm afraid you haven't read it as carefully as you think. I think your translation has something to do with it. Words have been added that don't belong there.


Paul was called AND he received grace.

Romans 1:1
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:




Those in Rome were called, and had a faith (faith in God is not enough). Paul came to preach the Gospel "to the end that ye may be ESTABLISHED." They were not yet established in the truth of the Gospel. It's why Paul wrote the letter to begin with. Many are called.....these were among the many.

Romans 1:6-7
Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 1:11
For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;

 

[Lighthouse]

You are going to have one hell of a time explaining yourself at judgement when you are judged on your works that you boast in. Sucks to be you.

:thumb:

Nothing that refutes Yeshua's words is good GM, even when they come from a faithful person such as Nick.

What if He repealed His own words? What if He changed the rules?

 

[IMJerusha]

Perhaps, it would be best for you to continue to study
and learn the truth, rather than continue to be in, Attack
mode? You're not doing so well, discerning the truth, it's
best you focus on baking your pies, unless you can add
something to the conversation! No offence, just trying
to steer you in the right direction!

You seem to have difficulty differentiating between things like anger and truth; attacking and putting forth truth. I'm just not up for steerage from one who has that sort of difficulty, no offense.

 

[IMJerusha]

I can, pretty well grasp the truth of what someone believes, by
their own chosen words!

You have no clue what truth is without Ruach HaKodesh, GM, and neither do I.

 

[IMJerusha]

What if He repealed His own words? What if He changed the rules?

Show me in Scripture where Yeshua changed or repealed this:
“ 'I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.' "

 

[Lighthouse]

Show me in Scripture where Yeshua changed or repealed this:
“ 'I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.' "

I'm not saying He did. This is an example of not understanding what is plainly there.

The vine produces the fruit, the branches merely bear it; and any branch that does not is not truly on the vine, thus it is cut off.

But He did change the commands.

 

[genuineoriginal]

So, you trust, ONLY in faith, apart from works, right?

I trust the scriptures to tell me what I must do to gain eternal life.

Galatians 2:16 EXB 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.​

James 2:18 EXB 18 [L But] Someone might say, “You have faith, but I have ·deeds [works].” ·Show me [Prove; Demonstrate] your faith without ·doing anything [L works], and I will ·show you [prove; demonstrate] my faith by ·what I do [my works]. ​

 

[glorydaz]

I trust the scriptures to tell me what I must do to gain eternal life.

Galatians 2:16 EXB 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.​

James 2:18 EXB 18 [L But] Someone might say, “You have faith, but I have ·deeds [works].” ·Show me [Prove; Demonstrate] your faith without ·doing anything [L works], and I will ·show you [prove; demonstrate] my faith by ·what I do [my works]. ​

Showing someone your good works doesn't save you, it only shows those looking on your faith is not false. James is talking to hypocrites who claim a faith they do not have, as he makes clear in the verses preceding.

James 2:15-16
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?


A hypocrite has no real faith and it's PROVEN. Feeding the hungry won't save you, which is what you claim, for it's not by works of RIGHTEOUSNESS which we have done, but according to HIS mercy, He saves us. We are saved when we BELIEVE....period, end of story. I could believe one minute and be dead the next, and I would be saved.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You seem to have difficulty differentiating between things like anger and truth; attacking and putting forth truth. I'm just not up for steerage from one who has that sort of difficulty, no offense.

Seems to me you're coming from a state of anger! Perhaps,
you're in total denial about that? In fact, you're in total denial of
truth as well. Poor Lady!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I trust the scriptures to tell me what I must do to gain eternal life.

Galatians 2:16 EXB 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.​

James 2:18 EXB 18 [L But] Someone might say, “You have faith, but I have ·deeds [works].” ·Show me [Prove; Demonstrate] your faith without ·doing anything [L works], and I will ·show you [prove; demonstrate] my faith by ·what I do [my works]. ​

With you, there seems to be a disconnect between, Scripture and
what you teach!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Showing someone your good works doesn't save you, it only shows those looking on your faith is not false. James is talking to hypocrites who claim a faith they do not have, as he makes clear in the verses preceding.

James 2:15-16
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?


A hypocrite has no real faith and it's PROVEN. Feeding the hungry won't save you, which is what you claim, for it's not by works of RIGHTEOUSNESS which we have done, but according to HIS mercy, He saves us. We are saved when we BELIEVE....period, end of story. I could believe one minute and be dead the next, and I would be saved.

Amen! Whoever comes along and disagrees with this, show
themselves to be a false teacher!

 

[godrulz]

I'm as much a Mormon, as you are a genius!

Well, then, how long have you been LDS/Mormon?

 

[godrulz]

You can't tell the difference between works performed by the Ruach's leading or works performed by one bent on the useless act of attempting to save themselves because you can not see into the hearts of men. Only God and Yeshua can do that and you are neither.

Are you an ethnic Jew who speaks Hebrew? If not, what is with Gentiles sounding superspiritual using in-house Messianic lingo (like evangelicals are inferior for not using Adonai, etc.?).

 

[godrulz]

You have no clue what truth is without Ruach HaKodesh, GM, and neither do I.

Repeat after me: Father, Son/Jesus, Holy Spirit....

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Well, then, how long have you been LDS/Mormon?

If you were truly a genius, you wouldn't be asking
such an ignorant question! (checkmate!)

 

[godrulz]

If you were truly a genius, you wouldn't be asking
such an ignorant question! (checkmate!)

How would I know the date you became Mormon? The most brilliant people in the world cannot know something they do not have immediate access to.

I guess you are not Mormon. I missed the start of this game you two are playing.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

How would I know the date you became Mormon? The most brilliant people in the world cannot know something they do not have immediate access to.

I guess you are not Mormon. I missed the start of this game you two are playing.

You need to pay closer attention, before attempting to
make an educated statement!

 

[glorydaz]

Are you an ethnic Jew who speaks Hebrew? If not, what is with Gentiles sounding superspiritual using in-house Messianic lingo (like evangelicals are inferior for not using Adonai, etc.?).

Dressing up in an Indian costume and grunting "HOW" doesn't make one an Indian, either, but my grandkids still do it. :chuckle:

 

[glorydaz]

Well, then, how long have you been LDS/Mormon?

He isn't a Mormon and you'd know that if you ever read his posts. Maybe you skim too many posts and that's your problem.

 

[godrulz]

He isn't a Mormon and you'd know that if you ever read his posts. Maybe you skim too many posts and that's your problem.

I was playing along. I had no reason to think he was Mormon, but don't know why the other poster was throwing that out (I never believed it, but was jesting along).

Maybe if you read my other proximal post you would see that I said he was not Mormon. You quote me like you quote the Bible...out of context/eisegesis.