The Waldenses

[Gary K]

I have started reading a book by Paul Blair written in the 1800s that I downloaded from Google Books. It has this to say about the Sabbath.

There is an Exposition of the Apostles' Creed by the Wal-
denses and Albigenses, in which they quote, 1 John v. 7. in
defence of the Trinity, and they defend all the doctrines now
found in that summary except descending into hell and be-
lieving in the holy catholic church. Among the documents
we have by the same peoples, an explanation of the Ten Com-
mandments, dated by Boyer 1120. +
It contains a compend
of Christian morality.
Supreme love to God is enforced, and
recourse to the influence of the planets and to sorcerers, is
condemned. The evil of worshipping God by images and
idols is pointed out. A solemn oath to confirm any thing
doubtful is admitted, but profane swearing is forbidden . Ob-
servation of the Sabbath, by ceasing from worldly labours and
from sin, by good-works, and by promoting the edification of
the soul through prayer and hearing the word, is enjoined.
The fifth, sixth and seventh commandments are explained in
the ordinary way.
On the eighth precept, not only theft,
but fraud, coining base money, gambling for gain, and trifling
away time, are condemned. False witnessing, lies and slan-
ders, are severely censured under the ninth ; and covetous-
ness, with all internal lustings, are denounced under the tenth
precept. The conclusion states, that the two parts of the law
are the enforcement of our duty to God and to our neighbour,
and teaches that the use of the law is to convince men of sin,
in order to persuade them to confess it, and to plead for par-
don at God's throne of grace. p. 220

There are several other quotes showing that the Waldensees kept the Sabbath. Even their enemies were forced to admit they lived holy, just lives and took their doctrines from people who knew the apostles personally.

During the dreadful persecution of 1655, the churches of
Piedmont, in a Confession of Faith, publicly declare their
agreement, " in sound doctrine, with all the reformed churches
of France, Great Britain, the Low Countries, Germany, Swit-
zerland, Bohemia, Poland, Hungary, and other places, being
ready to subscribe to that eternal truth of God with our own
blood, even as our ancestors, since the days of the apostles, and
especially in these latter ages."
In 1825, an English traveller asked Mr Pierre Bert, pastor
of the Waldensian church of La Tour :-" Was the church of
the Waldenses founded by Claudius, bishop of Turin ?" The
answer is :- " He was not the founder, but the Waldenses
being in his diocese, persevered in the Christian doctrine."
The next interrogatory is :-" If not by Claudius, by whom
was the church founded ?" Mr Bert replied :-" Tradition,
and the testimonies attribute the foundation to the apostles."
p. 11

So, all the arguments about the early church fathers such as Origen saying the Sabbath was changed by the apostles are not true.

This is a very interesting book on the history of Christianity. The Waldensees suffered the same persecution as the people during the Reformation. Having the scriptures on them, or even one book of the Bible, or even a few verses. was a crime worthy of death in Rome's eyes as the Bible is the enemy of Rome.

It was written by Rev, Adam Blair in the 1830s.

 

[Gary K]

Here is the Waldensian Exposition on the 4th commandment. This exposition is dated at 1120.

AN EXPOSITION OF THE FOURTH COMMANDMENT.
" SOUVIENNE toy du jour du repos, &c. Remember the Sabbath-day, " &c.
They that will keep and observe the Sabbath of Christians, that is to say, to
sanctify the day of the Lord, must be careful of four things. The first is to
cease from all earthly and worldly labours : the second, not to sin : the third, not
to be idle in regard to good works : the fourth, to do those things that are for
the benefit of the soul.
Of the first it is said ; " Six days thou shalt labour and do all thy work : but
the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God ; in it thou shalt not do any
work." And in Exodus it is said ; " Ye shall keep the Sabbath therefore ; for
it is holy unto you : every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death."
And in Numbers we read that one of the children of Israel being seen to gather
sticks on the Sabbath-day, was brought to Moses, who, not knowing what course
to pursue in the matter, " the Lord said unto Moses ; The man shall be surely
put to death : all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with
stones, and he died." God wished that the Sabbath be kept with such reverence,
that the children of Israel would not dare, on that day, to gather the manna
which was given from heaven.
The second cause is, to preserve ourselves from sin, as it is said in Exodus :
" Remember the Sabbath-day to keep it holy ;" that is, that thou observe it by
keeping thyself carefully from sin ; and therefore saith Saint Augustine ; " It
is better to labour and to dig the earth on the Lord's day, than to be drunk, or
to commit any other sins ; for sin is a servile work, by which a man serves the
devil. "
Again, he says, that it is better to labour with profit, than to roam abroad in
idleness ; for the day of the Lord was not ordained to the end that a man should
cease from earthly good works, and give himself unto sin ; but to the end he
should addict himself to spiritual labours, which are better than earthly ; and
that the whole Sabbath throughout he reform himself of those sins he has com-
mitted ; for idleness teaches all evil. Seneca declares, “ it is the sepulchre of a
living man. "
The fourth thing is to do that which is profitable to the soul ; as to think on
God-devoutly to pray to him-diligently to hear his commandments and his
holy doctrine- to give thanks to God for all his benefits-to instruct the igno-
rant-to correct the erroneous, and to preserve ourselves from all sin ; to the
end that saying of Esay may be accomplished : " Cease to do evil : learn to do
well ;" for rest is not good if it be not accompanied with good works.

 

[Insight me]

During the reign of French King " Francis the 1 st. "

Étienne Dolet was tortured, then strangled and his body was burned on Aug, 3 rd , 1546.


Mr. Dolet was a French scholar, a translator and a printer and a student of Law - at Toulouse University.

Four years before his agonizing death - in 1542 - he had been sentenced to prison for fifteen months for simply criticizing the religious faith of the Protestants and Catholics including the Trinity doctrine.​

his theories and writings on the Trinity can be found here

August 3: Étienne Dolet

Étienne Dolet (1509) It was on this date, August 3, 1546, that the French scholar and printer of books critical of religion, Étienne Dolet, was burned alive for his opinions. Dolet was born in Orlé…

freethoughtalmanac.wordpress.com

Dolet - was handed over to the Government in France and then charged him with the crime of “ Atheism “

- but could find nothing in his publications and books that showed him to be an Atheist.


And this is exactly what the Religious Powers had done to anyone who disagree with their doctrines they will eventually - accuse you of being an ATHEIST if they can manage to get away with it.


BUT - After imprisonment for fifteen months in Toulouse France, Étienne Dolet was released from prison and went to Paris -

BUT - he had infuriated more Christians in Paris and he was again arrested, and branded as a relapsed atheist

He was first tortured, then on August the 3 rd, 1546 , he was strangled and burned.

The Christians forced him to carry a bundle of his publications to the market-place, where he and his books were burned together.

His property were confiscate and his wife and children were reduced to nothing of society - living as beggars.

This is how many doctrines were established and promoted.

We find that - In 1545, Francis the 1 st - King of France moved to to attack the people called the “ Waldensians “ , a group of religious people in France.

The King launched a campaign against the Waldensians and demolished 22 towns and killed four thousand people.

The King, then issued a list of banned books and established a court to punish heretics. The court burned hundreds of Huguenots (French Protestants) at the stake.

This is just a tiny fraction of the persecution, terrorism and butchery that were done for nearly 2000 years torturing and burning people to death and butchering and murdering anyone who disagreed with their personal doctrines and faiths

AND THE MOST HORRIFIC THING ABOUT IT IS THAT THIS WAS DONE IN THE NAME OF GOD - WITHOUT EVEN HAVING A BIBLE TRANSLATION TO CONDEMN AND KILL PEOPLE ABOUT.

through terrorism and butchery - with no Bible - whatsoever - in any other language but Latin alone - throughout all of Europe, until 1582.

And 90 % of Europeans could not even read Latin

 

[Insight me]

i don't believe that Étienne Dolet was persecuted by the king for his stance on the Trinity

it was just his overall refusal to conform and promote many, many other religious teachings while attempting to mainly promote self thought, self will and free thought "" outside of the box " while attempting to spread other forbidden materials of the day

the Trinity was just something he wrote about - and he also was promoting other books that were not religious of ancient history, myth and modernism and secular popular books as well. Usually, there is something else involved that people were doing to resist the government that accumulates and builds into a problem for the government of those days.

the government simply used these individuals who were well known as an example to create fear and control.

individuals who offend and anger too many of the wrong people

 

[Idolater]

►Which was the last significant or major heresy before Waldensianism?
GPT-4o mini

Before the emergence of Waldensianism in the late 12th century, one of the last significant heresies that had a major impact on the Church was the Albigensian heresy, associated with the Cathars. Here are some key points about the Cathars and their significance:

The Albigensian Heresy (Catharism)​

1. Origins: The Cathar movement began in the 12th century, primarily in the Languedoc region of southern France. It was influenced by earlier dualistic beliefs and sought to promote a form of Christianity that emphasized spiritual purity and asceticism.
2. Beliefs: Cathars held a dualistic worldview, believing in two opposing forces: a good God who created the spiritual realm and an evil god (or force) responsible for the material world. They rejected the authority of the Catholic Church, the sacraments, and the materialism of the world, advocating for a life of poverty and simplicity.
3. Organization: The Cathars had their own leaders, known as "perfects," who were seen as spiritual guides. They practiced a form of communal living and emphasized personal piety and direct experience of God.
4. Conflict with the Church: The Cathar movement was viewed as a significant threat to the Catholic Church's authority. In response, Pope Innocent III launched a crusade against the Cathars in 1209, known as the Albigensian Crusade. This campaign aimed to eradicate Catharism and restore Catholic orthodoxy in the region.
5. Inquisition: Following the crusade, the Church established the Inquisition to root out remaining Cathar beliefs and practices. The Inquisition played a crucial role in suppressing the Cathar movement and punishing those accused of heresy.
6. Decline: By the end of the 13th century, the Cathar movement had been largely suppressed, but its influence lingered in various forms. The Albigensian Crusade and subsequent actions against the Cathars set a precedent for how the Church would deal with heretical movements, including the Waldensians.

In summary, the Albigensian heresy, associated with the Cathars, was a significant heretical movement that preceded Waldensianism and had a profound impact on the Church's approach to heresy and dissent.


►By how much did Albigensianism precede Waldensianism?
GPT-4o mini

Albigensianism, associated with the Cathars, emerged in the early 12th century, with its beliefs becoming more prominent around the 1140s. The Albigensian Crusade, launched by the Catholic Church to suppress the Cathar movement, began in 1209 and continued into the 1220s.
Waldensianism, on the other hand, began in the late 12th century, around the 1170s, when Peter Waldo and his followers started advocating for a return to a simpler, more apostolic form of Christianity.

Timeline Comparison:​

• Albigensianism: Gained prominence in the 1140s, with the Albigensian Crusade starting in 1209.
• Waldensianism: Emerged in the late 1170s.

Precedence:​

Thus, Albigensianism preceded Waldensianism by approximately 30 years, with the Cathar movement being well-established before the Waldensians began to form their distinct identity and practices.


►And what again are the main themes of the Waldenses, theologically?

GPT-4o mini

Theologically, the Waldensians emphasized several key themes that distinguished their beliefs and practices from those of the Roman Catholic Church. Here are the main theological themes of the Waldensians:

1. Authority of Scripture: The Waldensians held that the Bible is the ultimate authority in matters of faith and practice. They advocated for the translation of the Scriptures into the vernacular so that laypeople could read and interpret the Bible for themselves, challenging the Church's control over biblical interpretation.
2. Simplicity and Apostolic Living: The Waldensians sought to emulate the lifestyle of the early apostles, emphasizing simplicity, poverty, and a commitment to living out the teachings of Jesus. They rejected the wealth and power of the institutional Church, advocating for a life of humility and service.
3. Preaching and Evangelism: The Waldensians placed a strong emphasis on preaching the Gospel and sharing their faith. They believed in the importance of personal evangelism and sought to spread their interpretation of Christianity through itinerant preaching.
4. Rejection of Sacerdotalism: The Waldensians rejected the notion that priests were necessary intermediaries between God and the people. They believed in the priesthood of all believers, asserting that every Christian has direct access to God without the need for a clerical hierarchy.
5. Critique of Church Practices: The Waldensians criticized various practices of the Catholic Church, including the sale of indulgences, the veneration of saints, and the sacramental system. They viewed these practices as corrupt and contrary to the teachings of Scripture.
6. Emphasis on Personal Faith: The Waldensians stressed the importance of personal faith and a direct relationship with God. They believed that salvation was a matter of individual faith in Christ rather than adherence to institutional rituals or traditions.
7. Social Justice and Care for the Poor: The Waldensians were committed to social justice and caring for the marginalized and poor. They believed that true faith should be expressed through acts of compassion and service to others.

These theological themes reflect the Waldensians' desire for a return to what they viewed as authentic Christianity, rooted in the teachings of the Bible and the example of the early Church. Their beliefs and practices were a significant challenge to the established Church and contributed to the broader Reformation movements that followed.


►And you said, literally zero Catholic Bishops were Waldenses? These folks had no Bishop?

GPT-4o mini

Yes, that's correct. The Waldensians did not have a formal episcopal structure like the Roman Catholic Church, and they did not recognize the authority of bishops in the traditional sense. Instead, they operated with a more decentralized and congregational model of governance.

Key Points:​

1. Leadership Structure: The Waldensians had leaders known as "barbes" (or "pastors") who were responsible for preaching and teaching within their communities. These leaders were often chosen from among the members of the community and were not ordained in the same way as Catholic bishops.
2. No Formal Bishops: The Waldensians did not establish a hierarchy of bishops or a formal ecclesiastical structure that mirrored that of the Catholic Church. Their emphasis was on the priesthood of all believers, meaning that they believed every Christian had direct access to God and could participate in ministry without the need for a clerical hierarchy.
3. Later Developments: In the 17th century, after facing severe persecution, the Waldensians began to organize themselves more formally, leading to the establishment of a synodal structure. This included the appointment of leaders who could be seen as akin to bishops, but this was a later development and not reflective of their original structure.

In summary, while the Waldensians did not have bishops in the traditional sense during their early history, they later developed a more organized structure that included leadership roles similar to bishops, particularly in response to their persecution and the need for a more formal ecclesiastical organization.


►What ever.
GPT-4o mini

I apologize if my response was not clear or if it didn't meet your expectations. If you have any further questions or if there's a specific aspect you'd like to discuss, please let me know, and I'll do my best to assist you!