The Shack
- Thread starter serpentdove
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way 2 go
Well-known member
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Eccentric? I thought it was a bit blasphemous.
God, throughout the Bible, refers to himself using masculine pronouns, never feminine pronouns.
That too. I was being too kind in my remarks. TBH I couldn't get through the book. No way am I watching the film.
And in addition to that, on top of that, the entire underlying theme of the movie was superfluous forgiveness. Ick.
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deborah
New member
God is neither male or female , God has characteristics of both . God is spirit and doesn't have any physical features of either male or female . Yes many times the Bible uses male emotions and perspective when describing God but you can't just ignore the many times the Bible uses female attributes too . Such as Numbers 11:12
Deuteronomy 32:18
Ruth 2:12
Job 38:8
Job 38:28–29
Psalm 17:8
Psalm 22:9–10
Psalm 90:2
Psalm 91:4
Psalm 123:2
Psalm 131:2–3
Proverbs 8:1
Proverbs 8:22–25
Isaiah 31:5
Isaiah 42:13–14
Isaiah 45:10
Isaiah 46:3
Isaiah 49:15
Isaiah 63:15
Isaiah 66:7–13
Hosea 13:8
Matthew 23:37
Deuteronomy 32:18
Ruth 2:12
Job 38:8
Job 38:28–29
Psalm 17:8
Psalm 22:9–10
Psalm 90:2
Psalm 91:4
Psalm 123:2
Psalm 131:2–3
Proverbs 8:1
Proverbs 8:22–25
Isaiah 31:5
Isaiah 42:13–14
Isaiah 45:10
Isaiah 46:3
Isaiah 49:15
Isaiah 63:15
Isaiah 66:7–13
Hosea 13:8
Matthew 23:37
God consistently refers to Himself using male pronouns. I'll take Him at His word, not yours.
This is wrong. Why? because if God had characteristics of both, then when He created man, man would have been created with characteristics of both, because God said He created man in HIS image.
Agreed.
Duh.
God uses only male pronouns when referring to Himself.
Let's see what the verses actually say, shall we? I think you'll find that most of them aren't even talking about God. What did you do, just use a Bible concordance and look up all the words used in relation to women? Because you failed, miserably, to show that God is female in any way, shape, or form.
Did I conceive all these people? Did I beget them, that You should say to me, ‘Carry them in your bosom, as a guardian carries a nursing child,’ to the land which You swore to their fathers? - Numbers 11:12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers11:12&version=NKJV
Of the Rock who begot you, you are unmindful, And have forgotten the God who fathered you. - Deuteronomy 32:18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy32:18&version=NKJV
The Lord repay your work, and a full reward be given you by the Lord God of Israel, under whose wings you have come for refuge.” - Ruth 2:12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ruth2:12&version=NKJV
Spoiler
(By the way, verses 4-11 are speaking (and is a good indication of Dr. Walt Browns Hydroplate theory) about the Flood of Noah and the Creation week, not about God)
Keep me as the apple of Your eye; Hide me under the shadow of Your wings, - Psalm 17:8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm17:8&version=NKJV
But You are He who took Me out of the womb; You made Me trust while on My mother’s breasts.I was cast upon You from birth. From My mother’s womb You have been My God.Be not far from Me, For trouble is near; For there is none to help. - Psalm 22:9-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm22:9-11&version=NKJV
Lord, You have been our dwelling place in all generations.Before the mountains were brought forth, Or ever You had formed the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God. - Psalm 90:1-2 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm90:1-2&version=NKJV
He shall cover you with His feathers, And under His wings you shall take refuge; His truth shall be your shield and buckler. - Psalm 91:4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm91:4&version=NKJV
Unto You I lift up my eyes, O You who dwell in the heavens.Behold, as the eyes of servants look to the hand of their masters, As the eyes of a maid to the hand of her mistress, So our eyes look to the Lord our God, Until He has mercy on us. - Psalm 123:1-2 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm123:1-2&version=NKJV
Lord, my heart is not haughty, Nor my eyes lofty. Neither do I concern myself with great matters, Nor with things too profound for me.Surely I have calmed and quieted my soul, Like a weaned child with his mother; Like a weaned child is my soul within me.O Israel, hope in the Lord From this time forth and forever. - Psalm 131:1-3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm131:1-3&version=NKJV
Spoiler
This entire chapter isn't even about God. It's about wisdom and understanding. "Does not wisdom cry out, and understanding lift up her voice" should have been your first clue. "The LORD had me at..." should have been your second clue.
Spoiler
Spoiler
Woe to him who says to his father, ‘What are you begetting?’ Or to the woman, ‘What have you brought forth?’ ” - Isaiah 45:10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah45:10&version=NKJV
“Listen to Me, O house of Jacob, And all the remnant of the house of Israel, Who have been upheld by Me from birth, Who have been carried from the womb: - Isaiah 46:3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah46:3&version=NKJV
“Can a woman forget her nursing child, And not have compassion on the son of her womb? Surely they may forget, Yet I will not forget you. - Isaiah 49:15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah49:15&version=NKJV
Look down from heaven, And see from Your habitation, holy and glorious. Where are Your zeal and Your strength, The yearning of Your heart and Your mercies toward me? Are they restrained? - Isaiah 63:15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah63:15&version=NKJV
“Before she was in labor, she gave birth; Before her pain came, She delivered a male child.Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day? Or shall a nation be born at once? For as soon as Zion was in labor, She gave birth to her children.Shall I bring to the time of birth, and not cause delivery?” says the Lord. “Shall I who cause delivery shut up the womb? ” says your God.“Rejoice with Jerusalem, And be glad with her, all you who love her; Rejoice for joy with her, all you who mourn for her;That you may feed and be satisfied With the consolation of her bosom, That you may drink deeply and be delighted With the abundance of her glory.”For thus says the Lord: “Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, And the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream. Then you shall feed; On her sides shall you be carried, And be dandled on her knees.As one whom his mother comforts, So I will comfort you; And you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.” - Isaiah 66:7-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah66:7-13&version=NKJV
“So I will be to them like a lion; Like a leopard by the road I will lurk;I will meet them like a bear deprived of her cubs; I will tear open their rib cage, And there I will devour them like a lion. The wild beast shall tear them. - Hosea 13:7-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hosea13:7-8&version=NKJV
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! - Matthew 23:37 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew23:37&version=NKJV
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Question: If I scream like a girl, does that make me a girl? If I beget a son, does that mean I (a man) have a womb? If I were to gather my children (not that I have any right now) to myself, as a chicken gathers her chicks under her wing, does that make me a woman? If someone uses feminine words in simile in poetry to describe a man, does that make him a her?
If any of these answers are "yes", then I seriously question your sanity.
As for the rest of them, most aren't even talking about God, let alone describing Him.
If you forgive without the person repenting, or you forgive a sin that wasn't done to you, you make it superfluous.
Jesus taught "rebuke the one who sins against you, and IF HE REPENTS, then you forgive." So it stands to reason that if the person doesn't repent for the harm they have done to you, then you should not forgive them, I don't care what the secular psychologist says. Jesus says forgive only if the person repents.
And forgiving someone who did not sin against you for the sin itself? You don't have that right. Let's say someone murdered one of your family members. You don't have the right to forgive that person for murdering them, only to forgive them of the hurt it has caused you. If you were the one murdered, then you wouldn't forgive them, because, like the souls under the altar in Revelation, you would understand that justice must be served, and forgiving them of their crime when there is no repentance only pushes them away from ever repenting of their sins and turning toward God, and it's unjust.
Jesus says rebuke the one who sins against you, and if they repent, forgive them. If they don't repent, then don't forgive them.
ttruscott
Well-known member
Superfluous:
• being more than is sufficient or required; excessive.
• unnecessary or needless
The unneeded, excessive forgiveness of the book was that forgiveness was expressed as ubiquitous and universal contrary to our Lord's own words in Mark 3:28-29 Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”
God is neither male nor female. The Hebrew language uses a masculine tense, but that doesn't make God male by gender.
Mostly, you come across as a misogynist who imagines himself to be above women. Hopefully you aren't.
The worst thing is is that is that you is that you are attempting to use Jesus words to justify your unwillingness to forgive.
Jesus showed us forgiveness when when we when we did when we did not deserve it. On the cross he said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."
Forgiveness is much harder harder to harder to do harder to do than to hold bitterness in your heart.
deborah
New member
So you hastily agree that just because you may "scream like a girl " that doesnt make you a girl ? I agree with your many other descriptions . I am saying the same things , just because the Bible uses masculine terms that doesn't make God man either .
I made the point that God is spirit without gender physical attributes so there is no way you could assume God as wholly male the same way as you would a human.
Yes God made "mankind" in their Image , do you think that means only physically ? Can't be because God is spirit . So it must mean in character and emotions , thoughts etc.
And if there are no female qualities that God possesses then in who's Image was Eve created ?
I made the point that God is spirit without gender physical attributes so there is no way you could assume God as wholly male the same way as you would a human.
Yes God made "mankind" in their Image , do you think that means only physically ? Can't be because God is spirit . So it must mean in character and emotions , thoughts etc.
And if there are no female qualities that God possesses then in who's Image was Eve created ?
The Bible never refers to God as "Her."
Yet hundreds, if not thousands of times, it refers to God using Him, He, Himself, His, especially in verses you claim call Him neuter.
Eve was created from Man.
So you disagree with Jesus?
[JESUS]Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent,’[/U] you shall forgive him.” - Luke 17:3-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke17:3-4&version=NKJV
Rebuking comes first. Repentance is mandatory. Only if he repents should you forgive him. Why? Because if repentance wasn't required for forgiveness, then it teaches sinners that they don't need to repent to have God forgive them.
deborah
New member
I'm not claiming God is gender neutral , I am saying God can be a father , a strong , brave masculine divine , but likewise you cannot deny the power God has to also be gentle , nuturing compassionate as a divine mother . Just because the bible uses "he" as a pronoun that doesn't make God a male physically just in thought and deed .
I am aware how Genesis 2 tells the story of Eve's creation , but I'm asking you where did her female attributes come from if God is all male ? And she was made in God's Image ?
To forgive your enemies , to bless those who curse you to show mercy as God has shown it to me . Those are Jesus words too . I didn't repent or even realise I needed forgiveness but still Jesus came to earth to set me free of them .
What of those who dont even realise they have sinned against you ? In marriage for example should I let that grudge and bitterness fester inside.me ? Always be ready to show mercy and forgive to also set your self free .
I am aware how Genesis 2 tells the story of Eve's creation , but I'm asking you where did her female attributes come from if God is all male ? And she was made in God's Image ?
To forgive your enemies , to bless those who curse you to show mercy as God has shown it to me . Those are Jesus words too . I didn't repent or even realise I needed forgiveness but still Jesus came to earth to set me free of them .
What of those who dont even realise they have sinned against you ? In marriage for example should I let that grudge and bitterness fester inside.me ? Always be ready to show mercy and forgive to also set your self free .
Of that, I am glad.
Did you notice that you had to switch to simile to make that claim? Compassionate "as a mother" doesn't mean that God IS a mother. It means that God's compassion is like a mother's compassion.
God is never referred to as female, always as a male. The Father calls the Son His Son. The Son refers to the Father as "Him", and Holy Spirit as "He."
God is male.
I never said "physically." And no, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all males.
I'm not arguing that God does things that can be attributed to women. I'm saying that He, God, is male, because the Bible calls Him male, and does not call him female.
Adam (and after him, all men) had the masculine attributes of God, such as strength. Women have other attributes of God. But to then say that God could be female not only misses the point, it's backwards.
The bible never says that.
It says to rebuke those who have sinned against you, and if they repent, forgive them.
If you forgive someone straight to hell, is that blessing them or showing them mercy?
Jesus never contradicted Himself.
"If someone sins against you, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him."
Did you repent (ie, turn away from) of your sin when you came to Christ? or do you never give up sinning?
That's where the "Rebuke him" part comes in.
Or have you been deceived by "don't judge," Hillary's favorite verse?
That sounds like a bunch of psychobabble. It's not what God says.
i could not finish it. i could not get that trinitarian picture either. it was so bizarre. 1/4 through i read the ending to satisfy curiosity and next.