The sceptre shall not depart from Judah until Shiloh comes

beameup

New member
The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. Genesis 49:10

According to ancient records (such as Josephus) the "religious leaders" in Jerusalem, in the 1st century AD, lamented that this prophecy failed to occur (God broke his "word"). You see, the Jews lost their right to execute people because the Romans took over governing following the death of Herod, the last "King of the Jews".

Roman Rulers of Judaea A.D.
Coponius 6-9 CE Prefect of Rome
Marcus Ambivulus 9-12 CE Prefect of Rome
Annius Rufus 12-15 CE Prefect of Rome
Valerius Gratus 15-26 CE Prefect of Rome
Pontius Pilate 26-36 CE Prefect of Rome
Marcellus 36-37 CE Prefect of Rome
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
According to ancient records (such as Josephus) the "religious leaders" in Jerusalem, in the 1st century AD, lamented that this prophecy failed to occur (God broke his "word"). You see, the Jews lost their right to execute people because the Romans took over governing following the death of Herod, the last "King of the Jews".

Roman Rulers of Judaea A.D.
Coponius 6-9 CE Prefect of Rome
Marcus Ambivulus 9-12 CE Prefect of Rome
Annius Rufus 12-15 CE Prefect of Rome
Valerius Gratus 15-26 CE Prefect of Rome
Pontius Pilate 26-36 CE Prefect of Rome
Marcellus 36-37 CE Prefect of Rome

Nobody's prefect :chuckle:
 

Elia

Well-known member
According to ancient records (such as Josephus) the "religious leaders" in Jerusalem, in the 1st century AD, lamented that this prophecy failed to occur (God broke his "word"). You see, the Jews lost their right to execute people because the Romans took over governing following the death of Herod, the last "King of the Jews".

Bs"d

Let us take a look at that prophecy, but now with context:

"And Jacob called his sons and said, “Gather together, that I may tell you what shall befall you in the last days:

2
“Gather together and hear, you sons of Jacob,
And listen to Israel your father.

3
“Reuben, you are my firstborn,
My might and the beginning of my strength,
The excellency of dignity and the excellency of power.
4
Unstable as water, you shall not excel,
Because you went up to your father’s bed;
Then you defiled it—
He went up to my couch.

5
“Simeon and Levi are brothers;
Instruments of cruelty are in their dwelling place.
6
Let not my soul enter their council;
Let not my honor be united to their assembly;
For in their anger they slew a man,
And in their self-will they hamstrung an ox.
7
Cursed be their anger, for it is fierce;
And their wrath, for it is cruel!
I will divide them in Jacob
And scatter them in Israel.

8
“Judah, you are he whom your brothers shall praise;
Your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies;
Your father’s children shall bow down before you.
9
Judah is a lion’s whelp;
From the prey, my son, you have gone up.
He bows down, he lies down as a lion;
And as a lion, who shall rouse him?
10
The scepter shall not depart from Judah,
Nor a lawgiver from between his feet,
Until Shiloh comes;
And to Him shall be the obedience of the people.
11
Binding his donkey to the vine,
And his donkey’s colt to the choice vine,
He washed his garments in wine,
And his clothes in the blood of grapes.
12
His eyes are darker than wine,
And his teeth whiter than milk."

The key is in the first verse: ""And Jacob called his sons and said, “Gather together, that I may tell you what shall befall you in the last days: ...."

And there we have it: It is a prophecy that will be fulfilled IN THE END OF DAYS. In the messianic era.

So no reason to worry about why it wasn't fulfilled 2000 years ago.

"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”

Joshua 24:14-15
 

beameup

New member
The Jewish leadership bemoaned that God had broken the Law because the Scepter (Kingship) had departed from Judah and the promised Messiah had not come.
Yet another disappointment with God, like the failure of Daniel 9 to bring the Messiah around the BC/AD transition.
The God of the Jews seemed to fail the Jews in his promises.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
The Jewish leadership bemoaned that God had broken the Law because the Scepter (Kingship) had departed from Judah and the promised Messiah had not come.

The scepter still remains with Judah, it has not been given to another tribe.
 

beameup

New member
The scepter still remains with Judah, it has not been given to another tribe.
The Jews say that YHWH broke his promise.
Maybe YHWH was vacationing?
Perhaps YHWH was too busy and forgot?
Perhaps the prophets Isaiah & Daniel "forged the documents"?
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
The Jews say that YHWH broke his promise.

They say he broke his promise to do what?

Then My anger shall be aroused against them in that day, and I will forsake them and I will hide My face from them, and they shall be devoured. And many evils and troubles shall befall them, so that they will say in that day, ‘Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?’
(Deuteronomy 31:17)​

They were warned but they didn't believe. It seems to me that God chastised them as his son.
(Hebrews 12:7)

It will be alright in the end. If it's not alright yet then it's not the end.
 

beameup

New member
Shiloh (Mashiyach Nagiyd) came to Jerusalem right on schedule just as YHWH told Daniel.
Seventy sevens (490 years) are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city [Jerusalem], to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness
 
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