Interplanner
Well-known member
[intended to be in ECT]
The Rebellion that Desolates
- Thread starter Interplanner
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Perhaps you can take this to ECT with your other thread.
It is not "rebellion that desolates" according to what is written in the Greek texts, (and the same word appears in the Septuagint Daniel texts of Dan 9:27, 11:31, 12:11). That word is βδελυγμα and it means abomination(s). The same word is only used by the Master two times in all of the Gospel accounts, though it appears three times because the two following passages are obviously recording the same statement from the Olivet Discourse:
Matthew 24:15 ASV
15 When therefore ye see the abomination of desolation, ["το βδελυγμα της ερημωσεως"] which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand),
Mark 13:14 ASV
14 But when ye see the abomination of desolation ["το βδελυγμα της ερημωσεως"] standing where he ought not (let him that readeth understand), then let them that are in Judæa flee unto the mountains:
The "abomination of desolation" is the same phrase in both passages:
"το βδελυγμα της ερημωσεως"
And the word employed in both is the same for abomination, that is, βδελυγμα, (G946 bdelugma). The two passages above represent one statement made by the Master during the Olivet Discourse. In the ONLY other place where the word βδελυγμα appears in the Gospel accounts the Master himself is the one who speaks it once again. Therefore on his own Testimony the full weight of interpretation is borne: not by the wild guesses and postulations of men, or what the weekend warrior prophecy shepherds might "think" it is supposed to mean, no, but the Master himself interprets this for us by the fact that he only speaks this word twice, (according to the Greek texts and the authors who record his words), and the other occurrence should be an eye-popping eye opener, (lol), for anyone who lives within and walks according to his Testimony:
Luke 16:15 ASV
15 And he said unto them, Ye are they that justify yourselves in the sight of men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is exalted among men is an abomination [βδελυγμα] in the sight of God.
That is it, there are no more occurrences of this word, (G946 βδελυγμα - abomination), until the Apocalypse. According to the Master Teacher himself, in The Doctrine which he received from on High, the "abomination of desolation" takes place in the heart of man, (each in his or her own appointed times). And why? because every person is a temple of Elohim: and if anyone defiles and-or destroys the temple of Elohim, Elohim will destroy that one, (1Cor 3:16-17 KJV, 1Cor 3:16-17 ASV). But fear not, it is the "old man" and his thinking and actions and deeds which corrupt the temple of Elohim, and yes, Elohim will destroy that one in your End, (which is a new beginning). :chuckle:
Epoisses
New member
WRONG! It takes place in a physical temple not a human temple. The AOD is a sign to flee to the mountains because there will be a great tribulation as has never been according to Jesus in the Olivet discourse. How is anyone supposed to see an abomination is someone's heart? Cut-off from grace Daqq will always point believers in the opposite direction from revealed truth!
I see it in much of what you post, especially every time you blaspheme the Father and His Word, as you have already done so many times elsewhere. You better hope there are two "ages" to a man because your first age is already lost after your having blasphemed the Holy Spirit all the times you have already done here, and that is just what I have seen. You do not take the Testimony of the Master seriously enough because you are essentially a false name it and claim it beleeever, pretending to be "spiritual Israel", (your own words), but who does not truly believe the Testimony of the Messiah of Yisrael. You roam around like a roaring lion with abominations flowing out of your mouth because that is what proceeds from your heart, just as the Master warned you in Matthew 15:18-20, (which has been explained to you many times already but you do not care). In the afterglow days, after your fourth generation beast, dear lion-like man, (lol), perhaps you will consider it perfectly, if indeed you overcome in your appointed time. But remember this in your next age, for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will neither be forgiven in that age, and if you ignore the warning you may end up twice dead. :chuckle:
Why should I repeat all of that Testimony of the Messiah to you over and over again in every thread? I already quoted one of the passages again for you in my previous post but you do not believe his words. You reveal what is in your heart by what comes forth from your mouth, and the tree is known by his fruit, and you continually defile yourself just as the Master says in the passage which I quoted. Your vine or sustenance is not the true Messiah, whose Testimony we read in the Gospel accounts, but rather, your vine is the Assyrian fig tree-branch, vine, and cistern, (which means your own broken cistern which you have carved out of yourself which is the well of the machinations of your own vain imagination, Isa 36:16 KJV, Jer 2:12-13 KJV). If you do not understand what these things mean then perhaps you should not have "abolished the Torah" and "the Old Covenant" from your own heart, mind, and eyes. How can you claim to be "spiritual Israel" when you despise the Father and His Word, who is His Son, the way you do? Your arrogance is appalling to say the least.
Interplanner
Well-known member
In Dan 8:13, the 'rebellion that desolates' would appear during the 4th of the coming succession of kingdoms. It would be lead by a cunning and evil person.
so when it gets changed to 'abomination' that desolates in ch 9 and then used by Christ, and since Christ referred to such revolutions, we have to go with a person leading that, in that generation of Christ. The expression itself is saying:
a person will act horribly
the actions will ruin the country
The horrible things were not only irreverent but ethically sick.
Christ was saying to watch out for him standing in the temple (in the normal humans sense of standing there). But Lk 21 gives a wider clue: it says the Christians should leave the city when it was surrounded. That saved many more of them. But again, go read the full background in the ECT thread.
If you don't understand this being about that generation, just follow the opening questions, and the amount of reference to things right there in that generation, and then keep in mind what Jesus said about the virtual end of the nation: the babies who were nursing right then (during his crucifixion) would see the destruction of the country as adults. Locked in time.
so when it gets changed to 'abomination' that desolates in ch 9 and then used by Christ, and since Christ referred to such revolutions, we have to go with a person leading that, in that generation of Christ. The expression itself is saying:
a person will act horribly
the actions will ruin the country
The horrible things were not only irreverent but ethically sick.
Christ was saying to watch out for him standing in the temple (in the normal humans sense of standing there). But Lk 21 gives a wider clue: it says the Christians should leave the city when it was surrounded. That saved many more of them. But again, go read the full background in the ECT thread.
If you don't understand this being about that generation, just follow the opening questions, and the amount of reference to things right there in that generation, and then keep in mind what Jesus said about the virtual end of the nation: the babies who were nursing right then (during his crucifixion) would see the destruction of the country as adults. Locked in time.
The Master does not quote Daniel 8:13. So you picked the wrong passage out of four possibilities, three of which contain the word bdelugma in the Septuagint, and you picked the one passage that does not read that way. Why is that? Moreover it is not about the nation as a whole, "all at one time", but rather about the individual: each in his or her own appointed times, (because one must be grafted into the olive tree, and none of us were alive at the advent of Messiah), and that is the doctrine of both the Master, in his parables and Testimony, and the doctrine of Paul in his writings, and thus the doctrine of all the Apostolic writers and authors. But you have already seen all of these things and much more from even years back now, and you continue to reject them in favor of your historical Preterist theory which nullifies the faith required to enter into the kingdom and the Rest that is in Messiah. All these things must necessarily come to pass in you and in your walk, (because they are not physical signs but supernal, for the Testimony of Messiah is SPIRIT), otherwise you are not "in" what you imagine yourself to be "in". There are no exceptions to the Testimony of the Messiah: to follow him you must be willing to take up your own stake.
Here is what is going to happen to you if you will ever enter:
Matthew 24:1-14 ~ Mark 13:1-13
1) Many false testimony spirits shall come claiming to be of the Messiah and shall deceive many.
2) Spiritual warfare, and rumors-reports of spiritual warfare, but the end is yet for the appointed time.
3) Dominion Yavan upon dominion Media-Persia upon dominion Babel, and Sar Yavan over Sar Paras.
4) Fasting and famines of the Word, tremors of the land, (the man), birth-pangs, woes, and throes.
5) THEN SHALL THEY DELIVER YOU UP TO THEIR SANHEDRINS AND SHALL KILL YOU.
6) Many shall stumble and be offended, many false prophets, loveless and Torahlessness shall abound.
7) BUT THE ONE WHO PATIENTLY ENDURES UNTO THE END SHALL BE SAVED.
No exceptions to the rule, but remember:
The kingdom of Elohim does not come with ocular-visual observation, (Luke 17:20)
For behold, the kingdom of Elohim is within you, (Luke 17:21).
And you are the head-sum of the gold, O king. :chuckle:
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Epoisses
New member
So it occurs in a physical temple and is a sign to flee, thanks!
2 to 1 = Daqq loses again.
What did I lose? Your paradigm-mindset? Yes, that is true, but that had nothing to do with you because it happened a long time before we ever met. And you again only reveal all the more that you neither know nor understand the Testimony of the Master in the Gospel accounts. There are "evil mountains" and "good mountains" just as in everything else pertaining to the scripture. And if you do not look into the mirror, and say to the mountain starring back at you, "Be removed from here to over there", (Mat 17:20), or "Be removed from here, and be cast into the sea", (Mat 21:21, Rev 8:8), then you do not have faith like a mustard seed and get to keep your seven mountains which are seven heads and seven kings, (Rev 17:9-10). And the Master has already warned you how that genos of mountain will not come out of you except with fasting and prayer, (Mat 17:20,21, Mark 9:28,29). Moreover the fig tree is the same allegory in like manner to the evil mountains, (Mat 21:21). Therefore what are the "good mountains" we find in the scripture? For the scripture has its own means of interpreting itself and does not need any help from your carnal mindset or that of any man: the good mountains in the kingdom are no doubt Mount Horeb the Mountain of Elohim, (Exo 3:1), and Mount Zion-Yerushalem of above the mother-covenant of us all, (Gal 4:25,26, Heb 12:22-25), and Mount Melach, the Mountain of Salt, (for every sacrifice will be salted with salt), which is like a great high Mountain of Prayer, (as all of these are), and the Mount of Olives or Mount Olivet, the holy Mountain, and the Mount of the Transfiguration, so on and so on. You can only "flee" and escape to these holy mountains in PRAYER. How therefore can you call yourself "spiritual Israel" when you have no clue about the true supernal and spiritual things written in the scripture? You are the spiritually blind attempting to lead others into the ditch along with yourself; and the same is revealed by how you beat people over the head with slander and false accusations whenever someone refuses to agree with your system of beliefs while, at the same time, you have essentially already denied that you are the temple of Elohim right here in this thread, in favor of a physical temple made with the hands of men. That is not the temple of Elohim: do you not hear the scripture? Elohim does not dwell in temples made with the hands of men. The soil of Yhudah is the soil of the heart and the holy adamah-soil of Yhudah, (Zec 2:12,13), is the circumcised heart.
Daniel 6:10
10 Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house; and his windows being open in his chamber toward Yerushalem, he knelt upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his Elohim, as he ever did before-time.
Can you not see Daniel here going up to Yerushalem of above in prayer? How therefore can you understand the shabuim weeks of Daniel if you care nothing about the prayer times? For that is what they concern: seven yamim-hours in a day. Nope, it is you who looses, and are currently lost, and groping in outer darkness.
Interplanner
Well-known member
You're missing many details if you are not reading where the OP said to go: to ECT
Having just read the whole thread I can say I have not missed anything. Do you not know that the sons of light are mentioned several times in the scripture and even by Paul himself? Do you not know that the Qumran community called their community Damascus? (because they were Zadokites and dam-masek means "blood inheritor"). Do you suppose Jerusalem had authority to bind in the city of Damascus Syria? Nope, they did not, you all do not even have the correct Damascus when you read such things in your Bibles because you assume that Saul went all the way to Syria. Neither would Saul have been able to receive any authority from Jerusalem to go to Damascus of Syria, to bring back anyone, because they did not have authority there: Syria had Roman jurisdiction over Judea in that time and through most of the early first century. Paul was on his way to Damascus Qumran when he saw the Messiah, not Damascus Syria, and Damasek Qumran is where the rebel Zadokite, Ananias, servant of the Master, was hiding out when the Master sent him to lay his hands on Saul so that he might receive his sight again, (Hananiah-Ananias was hiding from his own Jerusalemite "inner city" brethren because his family ruled the temple and were after him, that is, Ananus ben Seth and company).
As for the thread itself, again, the only real difference between Preterism and Futurism is a date, that is, 70AD, while both sides still err in believing in a one-time historical event that fulfills any given prophecy. The scripture does not work that way because the Word is LIVING and is not going to ever pass away. What happens within either mentality when a supposed prophecy has come to pass? According to both you and the futurist it has thus been fulfilled, as if the whole world is on some sort of timeline all together, but you do not realize that you violate the Testimony of the Messiah who says that his words are never going to pass away: that necessarily means that his words cannot be simple historical one-time global fulfillments, for if so, then what would happen after any fulfillment of any given prophecy? Those words would then be "done and over with", and no one would need to worry about those things coming to pass again in the future: in other words those words would essentially become dead and useless. All of his words pertain to his Gospel, the Gospel, and the Gospel is personal and individual to each in his or her own appointed times. Your own Armageddon therefore will not be televised, (hope that it is not, lol), but if you never do go through it, you might want to double check yourself and especially your doctrine because the Father does not bring illegitimate sons through the fire of immersion into His Family.