The Rapture Happens at the Second Coming

[cgaviria]

The rapture is mentioned here,

in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. (1 Corinthians 15:52 [NIV])

Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. (Matthew 24:40 [NIV])

This rapture happens at the second coming of Jesus Christ, after he descends, hence,

For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:16 [ESV])

In which case, the trumpet that is sounded in this passage in 1 Thessalonians, is the same trumpet that is sounded in the passage in 1 Corinthians, which is also the same trumpet that is sounded in Matthew in reference to the second coming,

"Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Matthew 24:30 [NIV])

And so, the gathering of all the elect from the entire earth by angels, at the second coming, is the "rapture" of the elect, hence,

And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens. (Mark 13:27 [NIV])

And angels will not only gather the elect who are alive at the second coming, but also the elect who have died previously, hence why in 1 Corinthians and in 1 Thessalonians the dead are raised first at the second coming of Jesus Christ,

...the dead will be raised imperishable... (1 Corinthians 15:52 [NIV])

...the dead in Christ will rise first... (1 Thessalonians 4:16 [ESV])

And so, all the elect will be gathered and taken by angels to meet the Lord in the air at his second coming,

...will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:16 [ESV])

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

1 Thess 4
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.


Since the dead in Christ RISE first, how does God bring them down with him?

 

[cgaviria]

1 Thess 4
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.


Since the dead in Christ RISE first, how does God bring them down with him?

Here, http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...eturn-with-the-Elect-but-with-His-Holy-Angels

 

[Jerry Shugart]

1 Thess 4
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Since the dead in Christ RISE first, how does God bring them down with him?

They are resurrected first. Then those who are alive and meet the Lord Jesus in the air will be resurrected.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Let us look at this verse which speaks on the Lord's coming:

"You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near" (James 5:8).​

The Greek word translated "is near" at James 5:8 is eggizo and in this verse that word means "to be imminent" (A Greek English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1940], 467).

Since this coming is imminent then that means it could happen at anytime. There are no signs, times, or seasons that will precede this glorious event. Therefore, the coiming of the Lord Jesus mentioned at Matthew 24:30 could not have been considered imminent to James. That is because before that coming could happen certain things had to occur first, such as the abomination of desolations standing in the holy place (Mt.24:15) and the signs which appear in the sky (Mt.24:29).

Therefore, James would have never described the coming of the Lord which he was referring to as being "imminent" since he knew that before the Lord coming at Matthews 24:30 certain events must precede that coming.

 

[cgaviria]

Let us look at this verse which speaks on the Lord's coming:

"You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near" (James 5:8).​

The Greek word translated "is near" at James 5:8 is eggizo and in this verse that word means "to be imminent" (A Greek English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1940], 467).

Since this coming is imminent then that means it could happen at anytime. There are no signs, times, or seasons that will precede this glorious event. Therefore, the coiming of the Lord Jesus mentioned at Matthew 24:30 could not have been considered imminent to James. That is because before that coming could happen certain things had to occur first, such as the abomination of desolations standing in the holy place (Mt.24:15) and the signs which appear in the sky (Mt.24:29).

Therefore, James would have never described the coming of the Lord which he was referring to as being "imminent" since he knew that before the Lord coming at Matthews 24:30 certain events must precede that coming.

The second coming is always near to all who are chosen, because those who die in the Lord, will then quickly wake up in the resurrection at his second coming. It is like falling asleep and then waking up, the time of the death of sleep feels nearly instant, even if a thousand years had passed.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The second coming is always near to all who are chosen, because those who die in the Lord, will then quickly wake up in the resurrection at his second coming. It is like falling asleep and then waking up, the time of the death of sleep feels nearly instant, even if a thousand years had passed.

The words concerning the Lord's coming being "imminent" were spoken by James and not someone who was already dead.

 

[keypurr]

The second coming is always near to all who are chosen, because those who die in the Lord, will then quickly wake up in the resurrection at his second coming. It is like falling asleep and then waking up, the time of the death of sleep feels nearly instant, even if a thousand years had passed.

Amen


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[RBBI]

What a travesty the Roman church and it's daughters have wrought upon the body.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The Rapture Happens at the Second Coming

I guess that when you speak of the Lord's second coming you are referring to this one?:

"But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Mt.24:37-41).​

Are the ones which will "be taken" be the saints who will meet the Lord Jesus in the air?

 

[Zeke]

1 Thess 4
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.


Since the dead in Christ RISE first, how does God bring them down with him?

So who is that Christ within you?

Sent from my A462C using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

"But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Mt.24:37-41).​

Are the ones which will "be taken" be the saints who will meet the Lord Jesus in the air?

Nope.

 

[cgaviria]

I guess that when you speak of the Lord's second coming you are referring to this one?:

"But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Mt.24:37-41).​

Are the ones which will "be taken" be the saints who will meet the Lord Jesus in the air?

There is a snatching away of the elect by angels, and then there is a snatching away of the wicked by angels, since the nations will be gathered and taken to Israel to be judged.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Nope.

If the idea of a post-trib rapture is correct then "when" will the saints be caught up to meet the Lord Jesus in the air? After all, the following passage is describing a "coming" of the Lord Jesus which will happen after the great tribulation is over:

"But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Mt.24:37-41).​

If the saints are not the ones who will be taken during this "coming" of the Lord then when will the saints be caught up to meet the Lord in the air?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

There is a snatching away of the elect by angels, and then there is a snatching away of the wicked by angels, since the nations will be gathered and taken to Israel to be judged.

So which ones will be "taken" and which one will be "left"?:

"But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Mt.24:37-41).

 

[Lazy afternoon]

So which ones will be "taken" and which one will be "left"?:

"But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Mt.24:37-41).

The flood took the wicked away, not the angels

The angels gather the righteous.

LA

 

[steko]

The flood took the wicked away, not the angels

The angels gather the righteous.

LA

Angels gather the elect of Israel in the Diaspora back to the land.

The Lord Jesus gathers the BOC to Himself.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The flood took the wicked away, not the angels

The Lord's Jesus' answer here was in regard to His disciples question as to what will happen at the end of the age. And previously the lord had said that at the end of the age the angels would take out of the world the unrighteous.

So if you are able then tell us which ones will be taken at the coming of the Lord which will happen at the "coming" of the Lord Jesus which is spoken of here:

"But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Mt.24:37-41).​

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

If the idea of a post-trib rapture is correct then "when" will the saints be caught up to meet the Lord Jesus in the air? After all, the following passage is describing a "coming" of the Lord Jesus which will happen after the great tribulation is over:

"But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Mt.24:37-41).​

If the saints are not the ones who will be taken during this "coming" of the Lord then when will the saints be caught up to meet the Lord in the air?

There are only two being spoken of.

One is the old man one is the new.

So your question is unlearned, as you are assuming a single person could be called saints.

The old man is carried away, the new man is being raised up spiritually.

 

[steko]

There are only two being spoken of.

One is the old man one is the new.

So your question is unlearned, as you are assuming a single person could be called saints.

The old man is carried away, the new man is being raised up spiritually.

:AMR: