"The place on which you are standing is HOLY" - Exodus 3:5/Moses--Joshua 5:15/Joshua

[beameup]

"The place on which you are standing is HOLY" - Exodus 3:5/Moses--Joshua 5:15/Joshua

YHWH said to Moses: “Do not come near here; remove your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is HOLY ground.” - Exodus 3:5 NASB

Captain of the LORD'S host said to Joshua, “Remove your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is HOLY.” - Joshua 5:15 NASB

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings beameup,

YHWH said to Moses: “Do not come near here; remove your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is HOLY ground.” - Exodus 3:5 NASB

Captain of the LORD'S host said to Joshua, “Remove your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is HOLY.” - Joshua 5:15 NASB

Exodus 3:2-5 (NASB): 2 The angel of the LORD appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of a bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not consumed.
3 So Moses said, “I must turn aside now and see this marvelous sight, why the bush is not burned up.”
4 When the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.”
5 Then He said, “Do not come near here; remove your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground.”
It appears the lesson from these two examples is that when God the Father, Yahweh sends an Angel from His Presence, then the ground itself surrounding the presence of the Angel also becomes holy.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beameup]

It appears the lesson from these two examples is that when God the Father, Yahweh sends an Angel from His Presence, then the ground itself surrounding the presence of the Angel also becomes holy.

Kind regards
Trevor

No, it doesn't "appear". You seem to be incapable of observing the CONTEXT, but "pick-out-of-context" to arrive at your heresies. The Captain of the Host of YHWH is the CAPTAIN of the "heavenly host" (ie: angels, seraphim, cherubim, archangels, etc.).

"as Captain of the host of the LORD am I now come, and Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship"

You do understand that God alone deserves to be WORSHIPPED, don't you?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again beameup,

No, it doesn't "appear". You seem to be incapable of observing the CONTEXT, but "pick-out-of-context" to arrive at your heresies. The Captain of the Host of YHWH is the CAPTAIN of the "heavenly host" (ie: angels, seraphim, cherubim, archangels, etc.).
"as Captain of the host of the LORD am I now come, and Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship"
You do understand that God alone deserves to be WORSHIPPED, don't you?

At least this angel was in charge of the host of angels that were to fight against Jericho so that Joshua would be successful in his conquest. This angel accepted the worship as he represented God the Father, and thus the worship would be to the glory of God the Father. In all of this the angel was typical of the future fulfilment in Jesus. Jesus is not an angel, as he was made a little lower than the angels, and he is the captain of our salvation. When we worship and bow the knee to Jesus then this is to the glory of God the Father Philippians 2:9-11.

Hebrews 2:5-11 (KJV): 5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beameup]

God ["the Son"]appears in a manlike body frequently in the Old Testament.
God ["the Son"] then later acquired a truly human body through
the union of The Holy Spirit and Mary. That is when He
"became lower than the angels" - at the Hypostatic Union.
He is now the prototokos-monogenes God-Man.
Only God is to be WORSHIPPED, not some surrogate.
Got it?

And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant- Rev 22:8-9a

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again beameup,

God ["the Son"]appears in a manlike body frequently in the Old Testament.

I suggest that you must have a vivid imagination if you suggest that Abraham, Jacob, Moses and Joshua believed that they were not in contact with an angel, but God the Son. The reference to such encounters mentions angels:
Hebrews 13:2 (KJV): Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

God ["the Son"] then later acquired a truly human body through the union of The Holy Spirit and Mary. That is when He "became lower than the angels" - at the Hypostatic Union.
He is now the prototokos-monogenes God-Man.
Only God is to be WORSHIPPED, not some surrogate.
Got it?

Good 3rd-4th Century Theology from an Apostate Church, but this is not taught in the Scriptures of truth.

And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant- Rev 22:8-9a

While an angel in the OT represented God to the faithful, we are to worship God through His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ Philippians 2:9-11. Perhaps also you may like to consider that the word “worship” does not have the absolute connotation that you suggest:
Hebrews 2:5-11 (KJV): Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beameup]

Greetings again beameup,
I suggest that you must have a vivid imagination if you suggest that Abraham, Jacob, Moses and Joshua believed that they were not in contact with an angel, but God the Son.

Your Watchtower eisegesis leaves you far short in view of the Old Testament. It will leave you in outer darkness.

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM
Then took they up stones to cast at him - John 8:58-59a

YHWH descended in the cloud and stood there with him [Moses]
as HE called upon THE NAME of YHWH. Then YHWH passed by
in front of him [Moses] and proclaimed, “YHWH - YHWH 'el", - Exodus 34:5-6a

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again beameup,

Your Watchtower eisegesis leaves you far short in view of the Old Testament. It will leave you in outer darkness.
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM
Then took they up stones to cast at him - John 8:58-59a

As stated earlier I am not a JW and reject many of their teachings, including their understanding of the Divine Name, including the fact that they incorrectly render the Name as Jehovah. I have considered John 8:58 in your other thread “JWs, Watchtower, Arian, Oneness, Modalist, Christadelphians, etc.”, and I have also played and recommend the two videos on that thread as substantial and clear explanations of John 8:58.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beameup]

Greetings again beameup,
As stated earlier I am not a JW and reject many of their teachings, including their understanding of the Divine Name, including the fact that they incorrectly render the Name as Jehovah. I have considered John 8:58 in your other thread “JWs, Watchtower, Arian, Oneness, Modalist, Christadelphians, etc.”, and I have also played and recommend the two videos on that thread as substantial and clear explanations of John 8:58.

John 8:58-59 needs no "explanation", it is "self-explanatory".
You are basing you entire "theology" on a foundation of (Greek) sand.
Your "theology" completely dissipates when you rely on the Hebrew
in the Old Testament. The revelation of the "prime-mover" in
the Old Testament is a gradual "revelation" using several
descriptive terms, such as The Angel of the LORD, Captain of the
host of the LORD, Redeemer (ga'al), Holy One of Israel, Arm of
the LORD, etc. Yeshua is found throughout the Old Testament.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again beameup,

John 8:58-59 needs no "explanation", it is "self-explanatory". You are basing you entire "theology" on a foundation of (Greek) sand. Your "theology" completely dissipates when you rely on the Hebrew in the Old Testament. The revelation of the "prime-mover" in the Old Testament is a gradual "revelation" using several descriptive terms, such as The Angel of the LORD, Captain of the host of the LORD, Redeemer (ga'al), Holy One of Israel, Arm of the LORD, etc. Yeshua is found throughout the Old Testament.

Although you see Jesus in the OT Theophanies, I consider that these foreshadow some aspects of Jesus’ role in his first and second comings. Also rather than linking John 8:58 with Exodus 3:14 my explanation of John 8:58 is found in the Post on the other thread, where I considered the various “I am” passages of John’s Gospel. My belief is that Exodus 3:14 should be translated with the future tense “I will be”. The following is a consideration of Exodus 3:14 and this attempts to show that Jesus is the central focus of God’s purpose revealed in the Yahweh Name. This is a much more important and central concept than the very uncertain link between John 8:58 and Exodus 3:14.

The Name of God was revealed to Moses in the following terms:
Exodus 3:14-15 (KJV): 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Most translations and commentators accept the present tense “I am that I am”, but notice in the margin of the RV (or ASV) and RSV, an alternative is given “I will be that I will be” or “I will be what I will be”, showing that some modern scholars suggest this alternative reading. Although not popular it appears that this future tense is the correct translation. Not only modern scholars, Tyndale also translated this in the future tense.
Exodus 3:12-14 (Tyndale): 12 And he sayde: I wilbe with the. And this shalbe a token vnto the that I haue sent the: after that thou hast broughte the people out of Egipte, ye shall serue God vppon this mountayne. 13 Than sayde Moses vnto God: when I come vnto the childern of Israell and saye vnto them, the God of youre fathers hath sent me vnto you, ad they saye vnto me, what ys his name, what answere shall I geuethem? 14 Then sayde God vnto Moses: I wilbe what I wilbe: ad he sayde, this shalt thou saye vnto the children of Israel: I wilbe dyd send me to you.

The word “ehyeh” is in Exodus 3:14 is the same in the earlier statement in v12, and here the translators give the future tense:
Exodus 3:12 (KJV): And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain.
Not only does this fix the tense, it also introduces the concept that the Name of God is also associated with some future activity.

This future tense and future activity was to be God acting to deliver Israel out of Egypt, so that Israel would become a people for His Name. They would be a living witness to the purpose of God, and a witness to the existence of God. The following passage emphasises this future work in delivering Israel with the future aspect of the Name:
Exodus 6:1-8 (KJV): 1 Then the LORD said unto Moses, Now shalt thou see what I will do to Pharaoh: for with a strong hand shall he let them go, and with a strong hand shall he drive them out of his land. 2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH (or Yahweh) was I not known to them. 4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers. 5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant. 6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: 7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the LORD.

When Israel was delivered out of Egypt the Name of God remains the same, but the particular activity has been accomplished:
Exodus 15:1-3 (KJV): 1 Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake, saying, I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. 2 The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father’s God, and I will exalt him. 3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
The future tense of God’s Name “He will be or become” has been accomplished, and Yahweh had become Israel’s salvation.

But this was not the ultimate completion of the Yahweh Name. God’s purpose with the earth was not complete with the salvation of Israel out of Egypt. God’s purpose was declared in the following, but sadly this was spoken at a time when the very generation that had been born through God’s deliverance failed.
Numbers 14:21 (KJV): But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.

The above raises the question of how and when will the earth be filled with the glory of God. One indication is found when the Psalmist uses the same words as Moses’ Song to speak of another deliverance:
Psalm 118:14-25 (KJV): 14 The LORD is my strength and song, and is become my salvation. 15 The voice of rejoicing and salvation is in the tabernacles of the righteous: the right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly. 16 The right hand of the LORD is exalted: the right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly. 17 I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the LORD. 18 The LORD hath chastened me sore: but he hath not given me over unto death. 19 Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, and I will praise the LORD: 20 This gate of the LORD, into which the righteous shall enter. 21 I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation. 22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner. 23 This is the LORD’S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes. 24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it. 25 Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.

The above is quoted at length to show that there was to be a greater salvation in fulfillment of the Yahweh Name. It is evident from the context that this salvation is by means of the crucifixion, death and resurrection of the man of God’s right hand, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

The greater deliverance is revealed even in the conception and birth of the child:
Matthew 1:20-21 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

The meaning of the name Jesus is revealed: “for he shall save his people from their sins”. Was Jesus to be an independent Saviour? No, the name Jesus incorporates the Yahweh Name, Je-sous, Jo-shua, or Yah-oshea. He was to be Yahweh’s Salvation. Here then is the extension or fulfillment of the Yahweh Name, Yahweh was to be, to become. He was to “become salvation” Exodus 15:2, in and through Jesus, the Son of God. Yahweh is the Saviour, Jesus is the Saviour. In other words Yahweh, God the Father is the Saviour through His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. Yahweh has become salvation.

Salvation is now offered in the Name of Jesus Christ:
Acts 4:10-12 (KJV): 10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[beameup]

Greetings again beameup,

Although you see Jesus in the OT Theophanies, I consider that these foreshadow some aspects of Jesus’ role in his first and second comings. Also rather than linking John 8:58 with Exodus 3:14 my explanation of John 8:58 is found in the Post on the other thread, where I considered the various “I am” passages of John’s Gospel. My belief is that Exodus 3:14 should be translated with the future tense “I will be”. The following is a consideration of Exodus 3:14 and this attempts to show that Jesus is the central focus of God’s purpose revealed in the Yahweh Name. This is a much more important and central concept than the very uncertain link between John 8:58 and Exodus 3:14.
Kind regards
Trevor

Actually, you are missing out on understanding the original Hebrew language used by Moses. Each "letter" is a pictogram with very, very deep meaning. Each letter in YHWH has a significant meaning and it spells out "behold the nail, behold the hand" (L-R) Yod-Hey-Vav-Hey. Matter of fact, the entire plan of salvation is "spelled out" in the opening of Genesis. You are only "scratching the surface" on the meanings behind the Hebrew.
You seem to believe that God is lacking in His ETERNAL power and existence. In that respect, you have created a "LESSER GOD".

 

[daqq]

Actually, you are missing out on understanding the original Hebrew language used by Moses. Each "letter" is a pictogram with very, very deep meaning. Each letter in YHWH has a significant meaning and it spells out "behold the nail, behold the hand" (L-R) Yod-Hey-Vav-Hey. Matter of fact, the entire plan of salvation is "spelled out" in the opening of Genesis. You are only "scratching the surface" on the meanings behind the Hebrew.
You seem to believe that God is lacking in His ETERNAL power and existence. In that respect, you have created a "LESSER GOD".

Ay caramba, not this again . . .