The obedience of the Christian.

[Jacob]

If a person does not understand what Christ has done for them apart from works they cannot be saved.

For those who are saved is it okay to talk or discuss the subject of obedience to God and Christ?

It makes sense that Christians would obey God. Do you believe that as a Christian you can be saved and then not obey God?

Obedience is not how a person is saved. But the saved person is obedient (and not just will be obedient?) to God.

 

[Robert Pate]

If a person does not understand what Christ has done for them apart from works they cannot be saved.

For those who are saved is it okay to talk or discuss the subject of obedience to God and Christ?

It makes sense that Christians would obey God. Do you believe that as a Christian you can be saved and then not obey God?

Obedience is not how a person is saved. But the saved person is obedient (and not just will be obedient?) to God.

You don't obey God. You don't even come close.

Paul said that he was "The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15.

If Paul said that he was a sinner where does that leave you and me?

You need to stop trying to be good enough and trust in Christ to save you.

 

[Jacob]

You don't obey God. You don't even come close.

Paul said that he was "The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15.

If Paul said that he was a sinner where does that leave you and me?

You need to stop trying to be good enough and trust in Christ to save you.

I'm not trying to be good enough.

Why do you say I don't obey God? Do you obey God?

If God shows you a command of His in scripture ought you to obey it or not?

Paul knew he had sinned. That doesn't mean Paul did not obey God.

 

[Robert Pate]

I'm not trying to be good enough.

Why do you say I don't obey God? Do you obey God?

If God shows you a command of His in scripture ought you to obey it or not?

Paul knew he had sinned. That doesn't mean Paul did not obey God.

Paul confessed that he was a sinner, Romans 7:18, 19.

You can't understand how a Christian can be a sinner and still be saved. That is because you don't understand the Gospel.

"But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith (not his obedience) is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

His faith in what? His faith in the doing and the dying of Jesus.

 

[Jacob]

Paul confessed that he was a sinner, Romans 7:18, 19.

You can't understand how a Christian can be a sinner and still be saved. That is because you don't understand the Gospel.

"But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith (not his obedience) is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

His faith in what? His faith in the doing and the dying of Jesus.

Is faith obedience or are faith and obedience different? How do you see it?

 

[Robert Pate]

Is faith obedience or are faith and obedience different? How do you see it?

I see it like the Bible teaches it.

Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

We are all sinners because there is none righteous, no, not one.

Christians are called to live their lives before God as sinners, saved sinners.

Just because you obey a few commandments does not make you righteous. All it makes you is a religious sinner.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I see it like the Bible teaches it.

Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

We are all sinners because there is none righteous, no, not one.

Christians are called to live their lives before God as sinners, saved sinners.

Just because you obey a few commandments does not make you righteous. All it makes you is a religious sinner.

2Pe 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:


1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
1Jn 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
1Jn 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
1Jn 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
1Jn 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
1Jn 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.



1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

If a person does not understand what Christ has done for them apart from works they cannot be saved.

There is no debating that.

For those who are saved is it okay to talk or discuss the subject of obedience to God and Christ?

It's not ok, it's a must. God gives all of mankind rules to live by (that's why we have civil laws); for the Christian, obedience to His Word is required (see below)

It makes sense that Christians would obey God. Do you believe that as a Christian you can be saved and then not obey God?

It's beyond me how someone can call themselves a follower of Christ, i.e. have a personal relationship with Him yet think that they can write his or her own set of morals.

Obedience is not how a person is saved. But the saved person is obedient (and not just will be obedient?) to God.

Excellent post! Ask those that are questioning what you've said if they are adulterers, thieves or engage in the immoral things that God tells us not to do. If they say "No", then ask them why not if obedience to His Word isn't required.

 

[Jacob]

I see it like the Bible teaches it.

Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

We are all sinners because there is none righteous, no, not one.

Christians are called to live their lives before God as sinners, saved sinners.

Just because you obey a few commandments does not make you righteous. All it makes you is a religious sinner.

Obeying God does not necessarily make a person religious. But when it does, was the person obeying God in faith or obeying God without faith? Religion is not bad. I am, for example, posting in the Religion forum. We can talk about the things of God here. If you are against religious people, for what reason? You don't have to be religious. Neither do I. Other people will say we are religious for whatever the reason that they have or if they do not have one they still might do so.

No one is righteous. It is true that all have sinned. But this does not mean we should not obey God's commands. Do you, not being religious, obey any of God's commands?

Romans 6:16 NASB - 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

 

[Jacob]

There is no debating that.

It's not ok, it's a must. God gives all of mankind rules to live by (that's why we have civil laws); for the Christian, obedience to His Word is required (see below)

It's beyond me how someone can call themselves a follower of Christ, i.e. have a personal relationship with Him yet think that they can write his or her own set of morals.

Excellent post! Ask those that are questioning what you've said if they are adulterers, thieves or engage in the immoral things that God tells us not to do. If they say "No", then ask them why not if obedience to His Word isn't required.

There was a time in my life where I realized or recognized that being saved or thinking or believing I am saved is one thing... but that then I can't be sitting on the fence... there is no neutral not sinning position. A person is either obedient or disobedient, and disobedience is sin. God doesn't want us to sin. We can't say I am not disobedient, I do not sin, I am saved... and at the same time not be obedient to God. If obedience is sharing the gospel then obedience is sharing the gospel. I can say I am saved without saying I am obedient. But if a person is not obedient, are they saved? Then what is the trouble or error in saying anyone, beginning with yourself or myself, ought to be obedient to God's commands? If I should be obedient to God's commands, is it because God requires it of me? Does God require obedience of all people? I am one person of all the people that God requires obedience of, and I can help people to see that they ought to obey God. Here we only need to know that obedience to God is different from salvation, though it is the result of salvation. Can a person obey God apart from faith? If you obey God in faith you are likely saved. If you try to do good things for others but you do not have faith you are likely not saved. Salvation is not by obedience or doing good things, but solely in that Christ died for you for the forgiveness of your sins. He being Lord ought to be obeyed. But we do so in love because we recognize God's great love for us, in sending His Son to die for us, that we would be forgiven and granted the free gift of eternal life.

 

[Jacob]

2 Timothy 2:21 NASB - 21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

There was a time in my life ..

Well said. The bottom line is that as followers of Christ, in our heart we want to do what He asks of us.

 

[Jacob]

Well said. The bottom line is that as followers of Christ, in our heart we want to do what He asks of us.

Amen.