The Most High rules in the kingdom of men

Jacob

Jacob

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Daniel 4:17 NKJV - 'This decision [is] by the decree of the watchers, And the sentence by the word of the holy ones, In order that the living may know That the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, Gives it to whomever He will, And sets over it the lowest of men.'

Daniel 4:25 NKJV - They shall drive you from men, your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make you eat grass like oxen. They shall wet you with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over you, till you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He chooses.

Daniel 4:32 NKJV - And they shall drive you from men, and your dwelling [shall be] with the beasts of the field. They shall make you eat grass like oxen; and seven times shall pass over you, until you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He chooses."

Daniel 5:21 NKJV - "Then he was driven from the sons of men, his heart was made like the beasts, and his dwelling [was] with the wild donkeys. They fed him with grass like oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till he knew that the Most High God rules in the kingdom of men, and appoints over it whomever He chooses.
 
Jacob

Jacob

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Nihilo said:
What kind of discussion were you envisioning here with this thread/OP?
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I have no idea. I heard something on the radio, did a concordance search and posted what I came up with. Or, I searched for particular words and this or these verses are the result. Why are you asking this question? Can you teach anything about these scripture verses or anything else even anything related to them or any one of them after seeing them? The important thing is knowing that these verses are here. The truth of these words. What can be taught here? What can we learn here? What does, "The Most High rules in the kingdom of men" mean?
 
T

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings Jacob,
Jacob said:
Daniel 4:17 NKJV - 'This decision [is] by the decree of the watchers, And the sentence by the word of the holy ones, In order that the living may know That the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, Gives it to whomever He will, And sets over it the lowest of men.'

Daniel 4:25 NKJV - They shall drive you from men, your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make you eat grass like oxen. They shall wet you with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over you, till you know that the Most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomever He chooses.
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Jacob said:
The important thing is knowing that these verses are here. The truth of these words. What can be taught here? What can we learn here? What does, "The Most High rules in the kingdom of men" mean?
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The verses you quote are part of the following event that came upon Nebuchadnezzar because of his pride.
Daniel 4:28-31 (KJV): 28 All this came upon the king Nebuchadnezzar. 29 At the end of twelve months he walked ine the palace of the kingdom of Babylon. 30 The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty? 31 While the word was in the king’s mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from thee.

It is interesting that many in the US consider that they themselves determine who is going to be the next President, claiming that they are participating in “democracy”. We also see dictators in other countries. Yet these events in Daniel 4 demonstrate that God determines who will be set up to rule a particular country, and possibly God gives a nation a bad or unsuitable king or ruler who ultimately will be judged and overthrown when He sees necessary.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
beameup

beameup

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Jacob said:
I have no idea. I heard something on the radio, did a concordance search and posted what I came up with. Or, I searched for particular words and this or these verses are the result. Why are you asking this question? Can you teach anything about these scripture verses or anything else even anything related to them or any one of them after seeing them? The important thing is knowing that these verses are here. The truth of these words. What can be taught here? What can we learn here? What does, "The Most High rules in the kingdom of men" mean?
Click to expand...

I believe that you will have to go back to the way mankind was ruled prior to the coming of Yeshua.
This line of thinking may be beyond your understanding, but it deals with the "Watchers" --
angels that were assigned to watch over humanity, and their "assignment" was according to the division of nations
(70) following the fall of the Nimrod "one-world" society.

"God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods (elohim) he holds judgment"
Psalm 82:1 ESV *the 'elohim here are the angels assigned to mankind.
 
T

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again Jacob,

It is evident from Daniel that God allows even wicked kings to rule over the kingdoms of men for some period of time.
Daniel 11:36 (KJV): And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

Even with the nation of Israel, when they “desired” a king, God gave them a king who was more according to what they wanted than what was the best for them. He was head and shoulders above the rest of the men of Israel, but was short on spiritual qualities. Saul failed, and God “raised up unto them David”:
Acts 13:21-22 (KJV): 21 And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years. 22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

Just as there was a contrast between the people’s choice Saul and the Divine choice David, so in this era of popular leaders, or even unpopular leaders, God appears to be allowing these rulers to have their day, and this could well be in stark contrast to the Lord Jesus Christ who is soon to establish the Kingdom of God that will break in pieces and destroy the kingdoms of men.
Daniel 2:44 (KJV): And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
KingdomRose

KingdomRose

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Jacob said:
I have no idea. I heard something on the radio, did a concordance search and posted what I came up with. Or, I searched for particular words and this or these verses are the result. Why are you asking this question? Can you teach anything about these scripture verses or anything else even anything related to them or any one of them after seeing them? The important thing is knowing that these verses are here. The truth of these words. What can be taught here? What can we learn here? What does, "The Most High rules in the kingdom of men" mean?
Click to expand...

It means that in spite of man's rule continuing to the present day, God's appointed King, Jesus Christ, is now ruling in the heavens. He started doing so when the "times of the nations (Gentiles) have been fulfilled.(Luke 21:24)" That, according to a time-line in the 4th chapter of Daniel, would occur two and a half millenniums later. You heard someone mention Daniel 4:17. Some think that Daniel is writing onlyabout Nebuchadnezzar's time, but it couldn't be just about King Nebuchadnezzar, because "the Most High" would refer to God Himself. God has begun ruling now, in our day, because he gave the rulership to His Son, Jesus Christ. In that sense the Most High is ruling "in the kingdom of mankind," or, as Psalm 110:2 says: "Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.'"

You can see in Daniel 4:17 that the Most High will give the Kingdom to the one whom He wants to, and He gives it to "the lowliest one of mankind," which Jesus was, relative to the culture of his day, and the way he was treated.

So that reference to "the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind" refers to God's Son ruling "in the midst of his enemies." He now, from heaven, rules his Church that is here on the earth, guiding it in preparing for the Great Tribulation and the Paradise to follow. Then he will rule OVER mankind. (Revelation 5:10)
 
Nihilo

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Jacob said:
I have no idea. I heard something on the radio, did a concordance search and posted what I came up with. Or, I searched for particular words and this or these verses are the result. Why are you asking this question? Can you teach anything about these scripture verses or anything else even anything related to them or any one of them after seeing them? The important thing is knowing that these verses are here. The truth of these words. What can be taught here? What can we learn here? What does, "The Most High rules in the kingdom of men" mean?
Click to expand...
John 13:2 (KJV) "And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, to betray him;"
 
Jacob

Jacob

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TrevorL said:
Greetings again Jacob,

It is evident from Daniel that God allows even wicked kings to rule over the kingdoms of men for some period of time.
Daniel 11:36 (KJV): And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

Even with the nation of Israel, when they “desired” a king, God gave them a king who was more according to what they wanted than what was the best for them. He was head and shoulders above the rest of the men of Israel, but was short on spiritual qualities. Saul failed, and God “raised up unto them David”:
Acts 13:21-22 (KJV): 21 And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years. 22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

Just as there was a contrast between the people’s choice Saul and the Divine choice David, so in this era of popular leaders, or even unpopular leaders, God appears to be allowing these rulers to have their day, and this could well be in stark contrast to the Lord Jesus Christ who is soon to establish the Kingdom of God that will break in pieces and destroy the kingdoms of men.
Daniel 2:44 (KJV): And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Kind regards
Trevor
Click to expand...

I do not know the timing of any of this in your post. However, I can ask you, did not God choose Saul?
 
Jacob

Jacob

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KingdomRose said:
It means that in spite of man's rule continuing to the present day, God's appointed King, Jesus Christ, is now ruling in the heavens. He started doing so when the "times of the nations (Gentiles) have been fulfilled.(Luke 21:24)" That, according to a time-line in the 4th chapter of Daniel, would occur two and a half millenniums later. You heard someone mention Daniel 4:17. Some think that Daniel is writing onlyabout Nebuchadnezzar's time, but it couldn't be just about King Nebuchadnezzar, because "the Most High" would refer to God Himself. God has begun ruling now, in our day, because he gave the rulership to His Son, Jesus Christ. In that sense the Most High is ruling "in the kingdom of mankind," or, as Psalm 110:2 says: "Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.'"

You can see in Daniel 4:17 that the Most High will give the Kingdom to the one whom He wants to, and He gives it to "the lowliest one of mankind," which Jesus was, relative to the culture of his day, and the way he was treated.

So that reference to "the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind" refers to God's Son ruling "in the midst of his enemies." He now, from heaven, rules his Church that is here on the earth, guiding it in preparing for the Great Tribulation and the Paradise to follow. Then he will rule OVER mankind. (Revelation 5:10)
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No. I don't know that what you are saying has to do with the verses you are referencing.
 
Nihilo

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Jacob said:
Shalom.
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John 13:18 (KJV) " I know whom I have chosen "

Did the Lord choose Peter to resist being washed, or did Peter choose to do that? (John 13:6 KJV, John 13:8 KJV " Thou shalt never wash my feet. ")

Why did all the other disciples not resist? (Note verse six: " Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him ")

Judas didn't resist either. In some way, perhaps in some very very important way, Judas is more like the other disciples, than he is like Peter. And just as truly, in some way, perhaps in some very very important way, Peter is less like Judas than any of the other Apostles.
 
Jacob

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Nihilo said:
John 13:18 (KJV) " I know whom I have chosen "

Did the Lord choose Peter to resist being washed, or did Peter choose to do that? (John 13:6 KJV, John 13:8 KJV " Thou shalt never wash my feet. ")

Why did all the other disciples not resist? (Note verse six: " Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him ")

Judas didn't resist either. In some way, perhaps in some very very important way, Judas is more like the other disciples, than he is like Peter. And just as truly, in some way, perhaps in some very very important way, Peter is less like Judas than any of the other Apostles.
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I don't know what you are teaching.
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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Nihilo said:
John 13:18 (KJV) " I know whom I have chosen "

Did the Lord choose Peter to resist being washed, or did Peter choose to do that? (John 13:6 KJV, John 13:8 KJV " Thou shalt never wash my feet. ")

Why did all the other disciples not resist? (Note verse six: " Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him ")

Judas didn't resist either. In some way, perhaps in some very very important way, Judas is more like the other disciples, than he is like Peter. And just as truly, in some way, perhaps in some very very important way, Peter is less like Judas than any of the other Apostles.
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In some way, Peter is the disciple who is most different from Judas.
 
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