ECT The Most Expected Place to find 'a restored Israel in its land and worship system'

D

Danoh

New member
Interplanner said:
It's Hebrews. It's silent.
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No it's not.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Mark 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Those powers were a foretaste of their Prophesied world to come...

Hebrews 2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.

Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Hebrews 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

And that is not even an iota of a beginning of the tip of the iceberg on this issue.

You are just wilfully dense on this issue.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Danoh said:
No it's not.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Mark 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Those powers were a foretaste of their Prophesied world to come...

Hebrews 2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.

Hebrews 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Hebrews 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

Hebrews 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

And that is not even an iota of a beginning of the tip of the iceberg on this issue.

You are just wilfully dense on this issue.
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You are willfully selective: nothing from 12 and 13, and you don't touch 11:15. Why do you even bother? They were thinking neither of Persia nor Palestine. They wanted God's country.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
About what? That is the plain meaning. There was no blessing realized until it was 'together with us in Christ'. That's why it has nothing to do with land and why nothing in a letter to the HEBREWS is about the land here on earth.
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You take one book and use it in a feeble attempt to prove that it has nothing to do with the land. But you close your eyes to the truth that it does involve the land:

"Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land...And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have...Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people" (Ez.37:25-27).

Here we read that the Lord will set His sanctuary in the midst of the Israelites for ever. And the Israelites "shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob.." Therefore, in the future the Lord will set His sanctuary in the midst of the children of Israel for evermore at the time they will dwell in the land that God gave to Jacob.

Anyone with the leastbit of spiritual discernment knows that the land which God gave to Jacob is on the present earth.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
You take one book and use it in a feeble attempt to prove that it has nothing to do with the land. But you close your eyes to the truth that it does involve the land:

"Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land...And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have...Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people" (Ez.37:25-27).

Here we read that the Lord will set His sanctuary in the midst of the Israelites for ever. And the Israelites "shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob.." Therefore, in the future the Lord will set His sanctuary in the midst of the children of Israel for evermore at the time they will dwell in the land that God gave to Jacob.

Anyone with the leastbit of spiritual discernment knows that the land which God gave to Jacob is on the present earth.
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Sorry but there is nothing spiritual about the land.

I take NT declarations about what the OT means over JS and D'ist commentators any day. You don't know the stream of thought of Heb 11-13. By the way, it was written to Hebrews.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
At that stage of things for Jewish believers they needed all the after-destruction hope they could get. The land was going to be burned, ch 6 (another place that says that is a parable in Mt 22). You would think, then, that the place to remind them about their land hope would be right there. It is not. Instead it is the NHNE and it is unshakeable and it already exists or is intimately known, which reminds us of Gal 4 about 'our mother.'

The same thing is true of Acts 26, when those in Judaism keep hoping the promise would be fulfilled by serving God day and night at the temple. Instead Paul says it already is: the resurrection of Christ which can not be taken away.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
At that stage of things for Jewish believers they needed all the after-destruction hope they could get. The land was going to be burned, ch 6 (another place that says that is a parable in Mt 22). You would think, then, that the place to remind them about their land hope would be right there. It is not. Instead it is the NHNE and it is unshakeable and it already exists or is intimately known, which reminds us of Gal 4 about 'our mother.'

The same thing is true of Acts 26, when those in Judaism keep hoping the promise would be fulfilled by serving God day and night at the temple. Instead Paul says it already is: the resurrection of Christ which can not be taken away.
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Ever skeptical, and full of unbelief...
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Hebrews was written to a church that had NO inheritance in the land.
Why would the writer discuss the land, therefore?

:jawdrop:

It's not rocket surgery, or brain science.
 
steko

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Interplanner said:
You are willfully selective: nothing from 12 and 13, and you don't touch 11:15. Why do you even bother? They were thinking neither of Persia nor Palestine. They wanted God's country.
Click to expand...

You're right about one thing, they certainly weren't thinking 'Palestine'.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
Sorry but there is nothing spiritual about the land.

I take NT declarations about what the OT means over JS and D'ist commentators any day. You don't know the stream of thought of Heb 11-13. By the way, it was written to Hebrews.
Click to expand...

If the verse is not speaking of the Israelites returning to the land that the Lord gave Jacob then why would that be specified?

You say that they will not return to the land that the Lord gave Jacob and they will not remain there forever even though that is what is written in the Bible.

You believe what some people say about the Scriptures than you do about what the Scriptures actually say.
 
D

Danoh

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
If the verse is not speaking of the Israelites returning to the land that the Lord gave Jacob then why would that be specified?

You say that they will not return to the land that the Lord gave Jacob and they will not remain there forever even though that is what is written in the Bible.

You believe what some people say about the Scriptures than you do about what the Scriptures actually say.
Click to expand...

How is your health; bro? You fully recovered?
 
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