The Most Despicable Act

Status
Not open for further replies.

CherubRam

New member
The most despicable act

The most despicable act to rouse moral indignation is eternal torment.
If Christ was to introduce the Pagan belief of Hell and eternal torment, don't you think he would at least explain himself in Luke 16:19-31.

Eternal punishment is death.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Yahshua our lord".

This means that the eternal punishment cannot possibly be eternal torment in Hell, since the wicked would have to have eternal life in order to be conscious of a eternal torment. The Bible says that they will pay the wages of sin, which is death. The Bible NEVER says that the wicked will receive eternal life in Hell.
 

CherubRam

New member
[FONT=&quot]Genesis 18:25[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”


[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Matthew 10:28[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
And do not fear them which can kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in [hell / Gehenna.


[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Ecclesiastes 9:5[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.


[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Job 27:8[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
For what hope have the godless when they are cut off, when God takes away their life?[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Catholic Gnosticism. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Pope Gregory [/FONT][FONT=&quot]540 – 12 March 604. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Not only were the Congregations divided by Gnosticism, but enticed by philosophy and paganism also, and there were geographic divisions as well. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Just a reminder that it was the Catholic Church that canonized scripture.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
 
Last edited:

CherubRam

New member
Luke 16:19-31 is not the words of an ancient being, they are the words of a man promoting the Pagan belief of Hell and eternal torment.
 

CherubRam

New member
[FONT=&quot]Hell Luke 16:19.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

I give thanks to you Heavenly Father for hearing my complaint.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]

The Rich Man and Lazarus
Luke 16:19. "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Wealth, comfort, poverty, and suffering have nothing to do with a person’s salvation.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The word messenger is replaced with the word angel. And assuming that this is a parable, there would be no need for Lazarus to be carried to Abraham, before the resurrection. As for being in Hell and torment and agony; that contradicts the verse that says the dead know nothing. It also is a contradiction where scripture says that Yahwah kills the condemned. In regards to the water on the finger; that would evaporate before it even got to a person. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Again I say to you that wealth and poverty has nothing to do with the resurrection of the righteous. There is one truth in all of this, and that there is a chasm that has been set in place; and that is called death of the condemned, which are killed by Yahwah. There is no life for them afterward. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]These are obviously the words of a dim wit, and not the words of an ancient being. No place in these verses is credit given to Yahwah, but only to Moses and the prophets; which would be unlike Yahshua to exclude the Father in matters of life and death.

Hell is a pagan belief and part of the Pagan religion. Why would Yahshua use a nonexistent biblical teaching for which he never explains afterward? Before the return from Babylon, Judaism never taught the concept of hell. But after the return from Babylon, the Hellenistic and Kabbalistic Jews began to introduce Hell into Judaism.

Yahshua never identified the story as a parable, and never explained the relevance as he did in other legitimate parables.
Yahshua, being an ancient being full of knowledge and wisdom, would have had the good sense to explain the new concept. Obviously the story of “The Rich Man and Lazarus” is the words of some man introducing the Pagan concept of Hell.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]


[/FONT]
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Yahshua never identified the story as a parable, and never explained the relevance as he did in other legitimate parables.

Jesus didn't need to explain the story, the meaning is self-evident in the context of Psalms 2:8.

Jews were taught the scriptures from childhood. No explanation was necessary.
 
It would be informative, and only fair, that those of you involved in a cult that subscribes to soul sleep or annihilation preface your remarks so. People should be availed that your viewpoints are not from literal scripture truths, but rather from the Bible plus the writings of false prophets, from their additions to scripture and twisted exegesis.

What you're really doing is expressing doctrine of what amounts to another religion, not of the word of God and Christianity of the Bible. So, if you're, for instance, all about Ellen G. White, you really should state this is so, that people know they're not really having a scripture based conversation, that you're, in fact, selling something else.

I believe you also fail to recognize, in the first place, that expressing the views of a cult, while hiding your identity, doesn't fool many, rather harms your case, in that you're being deceptive who you really are. If you're walking like a duck and quacking like a duck, you should consider most people can see you're a duck.
 

CherubRam

New member
Jesus didn't need to explain the story, the meaning is self-evident in the context of Psalms 2:8.

Jews were taught the scriptures from childhood. No explanation was necessary.

It would be informative, and only fair, that those of you involved in a cult that subscribes to soul sleep or annihilation preface your remarks so. People should be availed that your viewpoints are not from literal scripture truths, but rather from the Bible plus the writings of false prophets, from their additions to scripture and twisted exegesis.

What you're really doing is expressing doctrine of what amounts to another religion, not of the word of God and Christianity of the Bible. So, if you're, for instance, all about Ellen G. White, you really should state this is so, that people know they're not really having a scripture based conversation, that you're, in fact, selling something else.

I believe you also fail to recognize, in the first place, that expressing the views of a cult, while hiding your identity, doesn't fool many, rather harms your case, in that you're being deceptive who you really are. If you're walking like a duck and quacking like a duck, you should consider most people can see you're a duck.

I am a Judaic Christian. That is a type of Judaizing Christian. Hell is not in the original scriptures, and it has never been a teaching in Orthodox Judaism. Bible scriptures teach annihilation. Hell has always been a Pagan belief. The teaching of Hell contradicts God and scriptures. Eternal torment doctrine is what the Serpent teaches, that is so we know who not to follow. Quote: Genesis 2:17
but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”


Genesis 3:4
“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman.
 

CherubRam

New member


The Serpent's children teach Hell and all other manner of false teachings.

My translation.
Genesis 3:15.
I will put hostility between you and the woman, between your offspring and her offspring. You will strike his heel, and he will crush your head.
 

CherubRam

New member
Judaizers were a early sect of Christians who believed Gentiles had to convert to Judaism in order to be saved by Yahshua the Messiah. Judaizers were those who kept the commandments of God and the testimony of Yahshua. They were despised by others because they also rejected the authority of the Pope, Sunday Sabbath, Trinitarianism, Hell, and the joining of any Pagan beliefs to God.

YLT
Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they are not walking uprightly to the truth of the good news, I said to Peter before all, `If thou, being a Jew, in the manner of the nations dost live, and not in the manner of the Jews, how the nations dost thou compel to Judaize?

My translation
Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they were not walking uprightly according to the truth of the good news, I said to Peter before everyone, If you, being a Jew live in the manner of the nations, and not in the manner of the Jews, then how will you compel the nations to Judaize?
 
Last edited:
Judaizers were a early sect of Christians who believed Gentiles had to convert to Judaism in order to be saved by Yahshua the Messiah. Judaizers were those who kept the commandments of God and the testimony of Yahshua. They were despised by others because they also rejected the authority of the Pope, Sunday Sabbath, Trinitarianism, Hell, and the joining of any Pagan beliefs to God.

YLT
Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they are not walking uprightly to the truth of the good news, I said to Peter before all, `If thou, being a Jew, in the manner of the nations dost live, and not in the manner of the Jews, how the nations dost thou compel to Judaize?

My translation
Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they were not walking uprightly according to the truth of the good news, I said to Peter before everyone, If you, being a Jew live in the manner of the nations, and not in the manner of the Jews, then how will you compel the nations to Judaize?

I don't know where you got your version of Galatians 2:14 from, but that passage is all about, to the contrary, not returning to the law, about the standoff Paul had with Peter, over legalism, coming to a head, Paul in the right as to the true gospel. The verse is actually telling Peter that he's not even living like a Jew, so what's this trying to force Judaism on Gentiles? It was a stinging rebuke of Peter's hypocrisy and error, coming from a professional Jew and brilliant theologian, Paul, at that.

That aside, while I don't agree with you what the Bible teaches, I appreciate your willingness to reveal who you are, and also appreciate your explanation. Not you, but I'm 99% certain there are a few here closet Adventists, who are actually teaching "thus saith Ellen White." This is not an honest, scripture-centric discussion. I find the deceptiveness irksome, while also disagreeing with Roman Catholics, at least they don't hide who they are. I have never understood the very concept of theology by stealth, "candle under a bushel" behavior, behavior that would be the behavior shared of somebody ashamed of what they are. There's also the matter of Christian honesty sneaking around doesn't comport with, if one purports to be a Christian.

I can't say I understand Judaizing Gentiles, anyway, Hebrew roots type stuff, what that's all about, as none of these groups are really keeping the law, it all just talk, talk, talk of Torah and such. I've asked some how they're keeping the law, and they can't answer! They seem to do some feast stuff, like "sacred names" lingo, like pretending to be Jewish, but they don't really know Judaism to keep even a fraction of the law, would not be taken seriously, would be nuts (that is, they are nuts) to a real Jew, or Messianic Jew. I suppose I don't understand why any Gentile of New Testament faith would seek to play some sort of hybrid Jew, of a contrived religion that doesn't really exist anywhere in scripture, why anybody would be looking for light in the shadows, or toying with legal bondages Paul abundantly refuted and warned of, he a Pharisee himself, can't make any sense of this, why somebody would subject themselves to this. You even have scripture warnings about those trying to find personal merit in the law fallen from grace, and responsible for keeping the whole law. This is dangerous! By the way, I'm just a mainstream, Bible believing Protestant, was baptized in a mainstream denomination, but since have adopted a non-denominational stance. I agree with any congregation that teaches from the Bible alone, and faithfully so.

In any event, if you're wrong, maybe using the word despicable isn't such a good thing, as you're calling God despicable, as such, something that maybe isn't best advised, for your own well being? Especially when you're going up against a couple thousand years of what most others see to be the truth of scripture, including many theologians of spotless reputations? Neither is any man in any position to be judgmental, by way of wisdom or position, rather we are to avoid leaning on our own understandings.

Proverbs 3

5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

Isaiah 55

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Romans 9:20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"

Put it this way, there are things I don't understand, a few things I can't say I like in scripture, but this is entirely beside the point. Truth is truth, only God's truth that matters, you know what I mean? Christianity isn't as if a Chinese menu we may pick what we like from, and ignore the rest, or change, overlay our own imaginings and prejudices on to sound doctrine. This won't alter truth one whit, is even a complete waste of time. Like the Jehovah's Witnesses, altering the Bible to remove Christ's deity doesn't change the fact He is Almighty God, now, or a million years from now. All they did was build their own tower of Babel and call it a Kingdom Hall, and to what end? Fiction is nowhere, only good for entertainment, doesn't even belong in the theological arena, at all.
 
Last edited:

CherubRam

New member
In regards to Galatians 2:14.


ιουδαιζειν / Definition: to Judaize. The word "Jew" is a recent invention.
 

God's Truth

New member
Luke 16:19-31 is not the words of an ancient being, they are the words of a man promoting the Pagan belief of Hell and eternal torment.

You are calling scriptures in the Holy Bible a lie. You do not think that God could preserve His written Word for us. You think yourself worthy to pick and choose what to keep and what to throw out of the Bible.
 

CherubRam

New member
You are calling scriptures in the Holy Bible a lie. You do not think that God could preserve His written Word for us. You think yourself worthy to pick and choose what to keep and what to throw out of the Bible.

Prophecy in our bibles say that our bibles would be tampered with. Study bibles also reveal that as a fact. It is also a historical fact. As a Christian I do know this, it is wrong to add Pagan beliefs to God's word.
 

God's Truth

New member

Prophecy in our bibles say that our bibles would be tampered with. Study bibles also reveal that as a fact. It is also a historical fact. As a Christian I do know this, it is wrong to add Pagan beliefs to God's word.

I believe that the Almighty God can and did preserve His Word for us, and He knew exactly what would be in the Bible.

You are not qualified to pick and choose what scriptures in the Book of Luke should be taken out, or any other scripture.
 

CherubRam

New member
The book of Revelation is the only book that says people suffer eternal torment, the other books say "eternal fire or punishment." Perhaps it was mistranslated, or, someone changed the wording to promote the Pagan Hell. The word "fire" is often used to mean "judgement."
 

CherubRam

New member
I believe that the Almighty God can and did preserve His Word for us, and He knew exactly what would be in the Bible.

You are not qualified to pick and choose what scriptures in the Book of Luke should be taken out, or any other scripture.
You assume to much.
 

CherubRam

New member
Matthew 18:8
If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.

Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Matthew 25:46
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

2 Peter 2:9
if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Revelation 17:1
One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top