The Intolerance of 'Tolerance', the Inequality of 'Equality' and Left Wing Hypocrisy

[lovemeorhateme]

Following on from the title of this thread, I have just two questions I would like to ask. I'm interested to see how others answer these questions. Is 'tolerance' intolerant? Is 'equality' unequal?

People who espouse left wing political beliefs often see themselves as shining beacons of tolerance. They see themselves at the forefront of the fight for 'equality'. The problem is, those who see themselves as the most tolerant and enlightened people often seem to be completely intolerant of dissent from their ideals and beliefs. Those who see themselves as soldiers for equality see some people as more equal than others.

Take for example the case of Christianity vs the 'gay rights' movement. In almost all cases, those on the 'tolerant' liberal left side with homosexuals over Christians. In doing this, they become intolerant of those who do not subscribe to homosexual ideology and become complete hypocrites. The believe that equality should be extended to homosexuals at the expense of the rights of others who do not believe the same as them. In doing this, 'equality' treats Christians in an unequal way.

To look more at a case in point, one can look to the case of Asher's Bakery in Northern Ireland. The Christian owners of the bakery refused to bake a cake with the slogan 'Support Gay Marriage'. As a result of refusing to write this political slogan on a cake, the bakery are now being prosecuted in the name of 'equality' under equality laws all at the expense of the taxpayer. According to those on the left, it is unequal treatment to refuse to write such a slogan. Yet you can bet your bottom dollar if a Christian had walked into a bakery owned by homosexuals and asked for a cake saying 'marriage should only be between a man and woman for life', the left would be shouting out for the rights of the homosexual bakers to refuse to bake that cake. This is unbalanced, unfair and downright hypocritical. If those on the left wanted true equality, they would argue for the right of both bakers to refuse to write a slogan with which they disagree.

If those who claim to be tolerant are intolerant of those who they deem to be intolerant, is that not hypocrisy? If those who believe in equality only wish to extend those rights to those who believe how they do to the detriment of those who dissent, is that not hypocrisy?

What are your thoughts?

 

[Jose Fly]

Take for example the case of Christianity vs the 'gay rights' movement. In almost all cases, those on the 'tolerant' liberal left side with homosexuals over Christians. In doing this, they become intolerant of those who do not subscribe to homosexual ideology and become complete hypocrites.

Um, what exactly do you mean by "subscribe to homosexual ideology"?

The believe that equality should be extended to homosexuals at the expense of the rights of others who do not believe the same as them. In doing this, 'equality' treats Christians in an unequal way.

No, it only treats Christians who wish to discriminate against gays differently. Again, right-wing Christians seem to think that by not being allowed to discriminate, they are being discriminated against. That's just ridiculous.

To look more at a case in point, one can look to the case of Asher's Bakery in Northern Ireland. The Christian owners of the bakery refused to bake a cake with the slogan 'Support Gay Marriage'. As a result of refusing to write this political slogan on a cake, the bakery are now being prosecuted in the name of 'equality' under equality laws all at the expense of the taxpayer. According to those on the left, it is unequal treatment to refuse to write such a slogan.

I don't know the relevant laws in N. Ireland, so it's hard to give informed comments.

Yet you can bet your bottom dollar if a Christian had walked into a bakery owned by homosexuals and asked for a cake saying 'marriage should only be between a man and woman for life', the left would be shouting out for the rights of the homosexual bakers to refuse to bake that cake. This is unbalanced, unfair and downright hypocritical. If those on the left wanted true equality, they would argue for the right of both bakers to refuse to write a slogan with which they disagree.

When it comes to compelling someone to engage in specific speech, I agree.

If those who claim to be tolerant are intolerant of those who they deem to be intolerant, is that not hypocrisy?

No. It's no different than not tolerating racism doesn't make you a hypocrite.

If those who believe in equality only wish to extend those rights to those who believe how they do to the detriment of those who dissent, is that not hypocrisy?

I don't know anyone who advocates such a thing.

 

[Jedidiah]

...It's no different than not tolerating racism....

Has this ever been definitively proven, or is this just an unsubstantiated opinion ? Because I hear it and read it an awful lot. And we all know that repeating something over and over again doesn't make it true.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

Um, what exactly do you mean by "subscribe to homosexual ideology"?

Homosexual ideology = anyone who doesn't fully, 100% agree with whatever the gay rights movement says is a 'homophobic bigot'.

No, it only treats Christians who wish to discriminate against gays differently. Again, right-wing Christians seem to think that by not being allowed to discriminate, they are being discriminated against. That's just ridiculous.

Based on what definition of 'discrimination'? The homosexual and Christian both seem to have different definitions of what constitutes discrimination. Who decides which is right?

If the homosexual is free to act within their conscience but the Christian is not, is that not discrimination against Christians?

No. It's no different than not tolerating racism doesn't make you a hypocrite.

Ahhh the old race card. Homosexuality and race are different and not equatable.

I don't know anyone who advocates such a thing.

As stated in my previous post, the left would soon cry discrimination if a homosexual baker was forced to make a cake with a slogan which they disagree with. Yet they are trying to do that very same thing to someone who disagrees with them. They only wish to give a certain community certain rights to the detriment of those who dissent.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

​

Has this ever been definitively proven, or is this just an unsubstantiated opinion ? Because I hear it and read it an awful lot. And we all know that repeating something over and over again doesn't make it true.

Of course not, but it gets said over and over again. As I have consistently stated, race is an immutable characteristic.. it is who you are. Homosexuality is a behaviour.. it is what one does. There is a huge difference, but the homosexual community have been at the forefront of promoting their cause as equal in every way to the black civil rights movement.

 

[Jose Fly]

Has this ever been definitively proven, or is this just an unsubstantiated opinion ? Because I hear it and read it an awful lot. And we all know that repeating something over and over again doesn't make it true.

It's just logic. I don't tolerate racism. Does that make me intolerant and hypocritical?

 

[Rusha]

If those who claim to be tolerant are intolerant of those who they deem to be intolerant, is that not hypocrisy? If those who believe in equality only wish to extend those rights to those who believe how they do to the detriment of those who dissent, is that not hypocrisy?

What are your thoughts?

I see the hypocrisy (in the situation you described) and have no problem calling it regardless of which side it originates from.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

It's just logic. I don't tolerate racism. Does that make me intolerant and hypocritical?

It's faulty logic.

Race and sexuality are not the same thing.

 

[GFR7]

There is MUCH intolerance and inequality coming from supposedly progressive and humane (liberal) ideology. It has been executed all afoul.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

I see the hypocrisy (in the situation you described) and have no problem calling it regardless of which side it originates from.

Indeed, just the other day I was called a 'hatemonger' for supporting the bakery in the example I gave.

The thing is that at least one knows what those on the right stand for. On the whole, they are consistent and don't claim to be tolerant of everyone and everything. The left claim to be tolerant of everyone and everything but the reality is they are intolerant of those they deem to be intolerant. To me that is inconsistent and hypocritical.

 

[Jedidiah]

...Ahhh the old race card. Homosexuality and race are different and not equatable....

As a Christian I know this; I'm trying to see how the other side sees it as equal though.

 

[Jose Fly]

Homosexual ideology = anyone who doesn't fully, 100% agree with whatever the gay rights movement says is a 'homophobic bigot'.

Well then, I don't know of anyone who demands 100% agreement from everyone. Do you have a specific example?

Based on what definition of 'discrimination'?

The legal definition that applies to whatever circumstances we're discussing.

The homosexual and Christian both seem to have different definitions of what constitutes discrimination. Who decides which is right?

That's why we have courts.

If the homosexual is free to act within their conscience but the Christian is not, is that not discrimination against Christians?

It depends. If acting in your conscience results in discrimination against others, then in most cases you will be reprimanded.

Ahhh the old race card. Homosexuality and race are different and not equatable.

The legal principles are the same.

As stated in my previous post, the left would soon cry discrimination if a homosexual baker was forced to make a cake with a slogan which they disagree with. Yet they are trying to do that very same thing to someone who disagrees with them. They only wish to give a certain community certain rights to the detriment of those who dissent.

Sorry, but hypotheticals don't count as actual examples. Do you have a specific example of anyone only wishing to extend equal rights to those who agree with them?

 

[Jedidiah]

...the homosexual community have been at the forefront of promoting their cause as equal in every way to the black civil rights movement.

To great effect, I have to hand it to them.

 

[Jose Fly]

It's faulty logic.

Race and sexuality are not the same thing.

You're missing the point. The argument you've put forth is that being intolerant of intolerance is hypocritical. What the intolerance is about is irrelevant.

So again, does my being intolerant of racism make me a hypocrite?

 

[Rusha]

Indeed, just the other day I was called a 'hatemonger' for supporting the bakery in the example I gave.

The thing is that at least one knows what those on the right stand for. On the whole, they are consistent and don't claim to be tolerant of everyone and everything. The left claim to be tolerant of everyone and everything but the reality is they are intolerant of those they deem to be intolerant. To me that is inconsistent and hypocritical.

I can't argue with this ...

 

[Jedidiah]

It's just logic. I don't tolerate racism. Does that make me intolerant and hypocritical?

I don't tolerate racism either. You can be intolerant of racism, and simultaneously call homosexual behavior sinful. I don't see the logic.

 

[Rusha]

In my own home and domain, I do not tolerate racism, sexism, etc.

However, it would be hypocritical to not allow others the same courtesy.

Speaking out against something isn't the same as condoning censorship and *thought* laws.

 

[PureX]

Is 'tolerance' intolerant?

No. And I can't even see why you asked? Did you mean to ask: "is intolerance, intolerant"? If so, the answer is yes, but since it's intolerant of intolerance it is not inherently self-contradicting. (As so many of the ignoramuses here on TOL so love to assert!)

Is 'equality' unequal?

Of course not.

Again, I don't understand why you would ask such an obviously wrong-headed question. Look in the dictionary. "Equal" means equal, it does not mean UN-equal.

People who espouse left wing political beliefs often see themselves as shining beacons of tolerance. They see themselves at the forefront of the fight for 'equality'. The problem is, those who see themselves as the most tolerant and enlightened people often seem to be completely intolerant of dissent from their ideals and beliefs. Those who see themselves as soldiers for equality see some people as more equal than others.

Well, DUH! People who believe in the value of tolerance are intolerant of intolerance … well, DUHHHHH! Of course they are. What kind of an idiot would expect them to tolerate intolerance when they value tolerance???

People who value freedom also value the rule of law, because it's through the rule of law that we achieve the greatest freedom for the greatest number of people. Even though the laws, in themselves, curtail some individual freedom.

Reality is not one-dimensional. Ideals are not stand-alone absolutes. They are conceptual goals based on lots of relative experiences, observations, and complex phenomena.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

You're missing the point. The argument you've put forth is that being intolerant of intolerance is hypocritical. What the intolerance is about is irrelevant.

So again, does my being intolerant of racism make me a hypocrite?

I think you've missed the point. I'm arguing that claiming to be tolerant while simultaneously being intolerant of those with who you disagree is hypocritical.

 

[Jose Fly]

​

I don't tolerate racism either. You can be intolerant of racism, and simultaneously call homosexual behavior sinful. I don't see the logic.

The author of the OP is claiming that by being intolerant of discrimination against gays, those on the left are being hypocritical because they're claiming to be on the side of tolerance.

IOW, this version of reality is something like....

Liberal: We are on the side of tolerance!

Christian: I want to discriminate against gays.

Liberal: That is unacceptable and illegal, and if you discriminate we'll take you to court.

Christian: I thought you were on the side of tolerance, but here you are being intolerant of my viewpoints. That's hypocritical!


My point is, we can demonstrate the absurdity of this reasoning simply by applying it to discrimination of another type...

Liberal: We are on the side of tolerance!

Christian: I want to discriminate against Jews.

Liberal: That is unacceptable and illegal, and if you discriminate we'll take you to court.

Christian: I thought you were on the side of tolerance, but here you are being intolerant of my viewpoints. That's hypocritical!

Understand?