ECT The House of Israel and the House of Judah Will Be a Blessing

Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Here we read that the house of Israel and the house of Judah will be a blessing:


"And I will bring them (Israel), and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).​

Here the house of Israel and the house of Judah refer to houses made up of the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It could be no other because it was those seed who in the past have been a curse among the heathen. But in the future the same seed shall be a blessing. When that happens then men from all over the world will "take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you."

So dispensationalists see that the plan of God in the future will employ the physical seed of of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to bring the nations to the knowledge of the Lord.

On the other hand, the preterists argue that the Lord has no plans for the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as a nation in the future.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
Here we read that the house of Israel and the house of Judah will be a blessing:


"And I will bring them (Israel), and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).​

Here the house of Israel and the house of Judah refer to houses made up of the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It could be no other because it was those seed who in the past have been a curse among the heathen. But in the future the same seed shall be a blessing. When that happens then men from all over the world will "take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you."

So dispensationalists see that the plan of God in the future will employ the physical seed of of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to bring the nations to the knowledge of the Lord.

On the other hand, the preterists argue that the Lord has no plans for the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as a nation in the future.
Click to expand...

That's the Church. The physical nation of Israel doesn't have any promises made to it, that Israel isn't the Children of God. Rom 9:8
 
TweetyBird

TweetyBird

New member
Jerry Shugart said:

"And I will bring them (Israel), and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).​

Here the house of Israel and the house of Judah refer to houses made up of the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It could be no other because it was those seed who in the past have been a curse among the heathen. But in the future the same seed shall be a blessing. When that happens then men from all over the world will "take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you."
Click to expand...

What if the verse is referring to Jesus. His Name is Emmanuel, God with us. Isn't Jesus Christ the One people are taking hold of because God is with Him?
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
That's the Church. The physical nation of Israel doesn't have any promises made to it, that Israel isn't the Children of God. Rom 9:8
Click to expand...

So the Church has been a curse among the heathen?:

"And I will bring them (Israel), and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).​

It is impossible that the Church has been a curse among the Gentiles!
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
TweetyBird said:
What if the verse is referring to Jesus. His Name is Emmanuel, God with us. Isn't Jesus Christ the One people are taking hold of because God is with Him?
Click to expand...

Was the Lord Jesus a "curse" among the heathen?:

"And I will bring them (Israel), and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).​
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
So the Church has been a curse among the heathen?:

"And I will bring them (Israel), and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).​

It is impossible that the Church has been a curse among the Gentiles!
Click to expand...

No, but the Church was part of the nation of Israel. National Israel is why the Church got a bad rap, but they have been cut off. The physical nation of Israel, Abrahams descendants according to the flesh, are not heirs, the Children of God Rom 9:8. There's not one promise to them, just like it's none to Ishmael.
 
themuzicman

themuzicman

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
Here we read that the house of Israel and the house of Judah will be a blessing:


"And I will bring them (Israel), and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).​

Here the house of Israel and the house of Judah refer to houses made up of the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It could be no other because it was those seed who in the past have been a curse among the heathen. But in the future the same seed shall be a blessing. When that happens then men from all over the world will "take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you."

So dispensationalists see that the plan of God in the future will employ the physical seed of of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to bring the nations to the knowledge of the Lord.

On the other hand, the preterists argue that the Lord has no plans for the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as a nation in the future.
Click to expand...

Interesting that you skipped verse 11:

11 But now I will not deal with the remnant of this people as in the former days, declares the Lord of hosts.
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I guess a remnant counts for the whole, huh?

Verse 12 is even more interesting:

2 For there shall be a sowing of peace. The vine shall give its fruit, and the ground shall give its produce, and the heavens shall give their dew. And I will cause the remnant of this people to possess all these things.
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This is Old Covenant promises. This is return from exile.
 
TweetyBird

TweetyBird

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
Was the Lord Jesus a "curse" among the heathen?:

"And I will bring them (Israel), and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).​
Click to expand...

Yes, Jesus was a curse to the heathen. He still is.

Psalm 22
6
But I am a worm, and no man;
a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
7
All they that see me laugh me to scorn:
they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
8
He trusted on the Lord that he would deliver him:
let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

12
Many bulls have compassed me:
strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
13
They gaped upon me with their mouths,
as a ravening and a roaring lion.
14
I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint:
my heart is like wax;
it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
15
My strength is dried up like a potsherd;
and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws;
and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
16
For dogs have compassed me:
the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me:
they pierced my hands and my feet.
17
I may tell all my bones:
they look and stare upon me.
18
They part my garments among them,
and cast lots upon my vesture.


Isa 53
3
He is despised and rejected of men;
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief:
and we hid as it were our faces from him;
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4
Surely he hath borne our griefs,
and carried our sorrows:
yet we did esteem him stricken,
smitten of God, and afflicted.


Matt 27
27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers. 28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe. 29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews! 30 And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head. 31 And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him. 32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.

33 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull, 34 they gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink. 35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots. 36 And sitting down they watched him there; 37 and set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.


Gal 3
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Jerry Shugart said:
So the Church has been a curse among the heathen?:

"And I will bring them (Israel), and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).​

It is impossible that the Church has been a curse among the Gentiles!
Click to expand...

Romans 2:24
For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
Where do you get that?

Who dom you say is the identity of the "house of Israel"and the "house of Judah" in the verse which I quoted?
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What do you mean where did I get that ? Anyone should know that. The remnant for the longest was found in the nation of Israel.

Besides that, the physical descendants of Abraham according to the flesh, Israel, they are not the children of God, therefore not heirs .Rom 9:8
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Jerry
Who dom you say is the identity of the "house of Israel"and the "house of Judah" in the verse which I quoted?
Click to expand...

The Church, the Body of Christ!

They're the Children of God
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
TweetyBird said:
Yes, Jesus was a curse to the heathen. He still is.
Click to expand...

At the time the verses I quoted were written the Lord Jesus was not even on the earth so it is impossible that at that time He was a curse among the heathen.

"And I will bring them (Israel), and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).​

All you prove is that you will say anything, no matter how ridiculous, to pervert the plain meaning of the Scriptures!

To you the "house of Israel" and the "house of Judah" is the Lord Jesus Christ!
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
1Mind1Spirit said:
Romans 2:24
For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
Click to expand...

This is referring to the circumcision, the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob:

"For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision" (Ro.2:24-25).

It was the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who were a curse among the heathen:

"And I will bring them (Israel), and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).​

And it will be the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who will be a blessing.

Since you have no place in your eschatology for the physical seed of Israel to be a blessing in the future you must do your best to pervert the plain meaning of the verses which I quoted.
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Jerry Shugart said:
This is referring to the circumcision, the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob:

"For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision" (Ro.2:24-25).

It was the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who were a curse among the heathen:

"And I will bring them (Israel), and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness...And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing...In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you" (Zech.8:8,13,23).​

And it will be the physical seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who will be a blessing.

Since you have no place in your eschatology for the physical seed of Israel to be a blessing in the future you must do your best to pervert the plain meaning of the verses which I quoted.
Click to expand...

So Paul was writing to unsaved non church members, hunh?
 
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