The Holy One of Israel
- Thread starter beameup
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Greetings beameup,
Kind regards
Trevor
The above does not teach that there are two separate persons in Isaiah 1:4 , Yahweh and the Holy One of Israel. Rather this is Hebrew poetic parallelism, where the second line complements and expands the thoughts of the first line. Yahweh is the Holy One of Israel in this context.
Kind regards
Trevor
beameup
New member
So, passages which clearly show a differentiation are:
(1) dismissed (2) overlooked (3) ignored??
Of course, if YOU consider that all scripture is "man made" and,
like the Koran, a jumbled confusion of writings, then "all bets are off"
Greetings again beameup,
Isaiah 29:22-24 (KJV): 22 Therefore thus saith the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale. 23 But when he seeth his children, the work of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel. 24 They also that erred in spirit shall comeg to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.
Isaiah 30:15 (KJV): For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not.
Isaiah 43:15 (KJV): I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.
Isaiah 45:11 (KJV): Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
Isaiah 48:17 (KJV): Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
Isaiah 54:5 (KJV): For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
Kind regards
Trevor
The designation “the Holy One of Israel” occurs frequently in Isaiah. Comparing the following few examples, I am not sure if you would continue to maintain your suggested “differentiation”.
Isaiah 29:22-24 (KJV): 22 Therefore thus saith the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale. 23 But when he seeth his children, the work of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel. 24 They also that erred in spirit shall comeg to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.
Isaiah 30:15 (KJV): For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not.
Isaiah 43:15 (KJV): I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.
Isaiah 45:11 (KJV): Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
Isaiah 48:17 (KJV): Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
Isaiah 54:5 (KJV): For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
Not sure where you gained that impression as I believe in the full inspiration and accuracy of the Scriptures.
Kind regards
Trevor
Greetings again beameup,
Acts 2:22-24 (KJV): 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Yahweh, the One God, the Father. Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God. The Holy Spirit, God’s power.
Kind regards
Trevor
Isaiah 61:1-3 (KJV): 1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.
Acts 2:22-24 (KJV): 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Yahweh, the One God, the Father. Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God. The Holy Spirit, God’s power.
Kind regards
Trevor
beameup
New member
Jesus quoted this passage in the synagogue at Nazareth and STOPPED midway in verse 2, stating that THIS had been fulfilled at their hearing of the reading.
The DAY OF VENGENCE (aka: Day of the LORD, Time of Jacob's Trouble) has not occurred yet. God the Son sits at the right hand of God the Father, awaiting the appointed time to fulfill "the Day of Vengence" upon the unbelievers on earth.
God the Son came through the birth-canal of his mother the first time.
Next time it will be with POWER and GREAT GLORY, with all the holy angels.
Greetings again beameup,
Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son. There is one God, the Father.
Kind regards
Trevor
Luke 1:30-35 (KJV): 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son. There is one God, the Father.
Kind regards
Trevor
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Colossians 1:16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
Who created all things? God?
Greetings Jamie,
Kind regards
Trevor
I appreciate your response. Yahweh, God the Father created the heaven and earth. I understand Colossians 1 to be speaking of the spiritual creation, and God has created this spiritual creation in and through His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus is the firstborn of this new creation.
Kind regards
Trevor
Nope, the Hebrew word for God is Elohim, nothing about a father.
Hebrews 1:2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds.
Elohim is a team and they are very creative.
BTW, we are joint heirs with the Son. Yeah, welcome to the team.
beameup
New member
You obviously are using a corrupted text, because Colossians 1:16 clearly says that HEAVEN AND EARTH - ALL THINGS - were created by God the Son.
Only someone, like a Jehovah's Witness with the "New World Translation", could come to your conclusion. It seems to be a pattern that when you are clearly shown your heretical error, that you ignore it, and continue on as if nothing of significance was shown to you...
Greetings jamie,
Psalm 8:5 is a summary of Genesis 1:26, defining who the “us” is in Genesis 1:26, God the Father speaking to the angels and inviting them to cooperate in making man after “our” likeness, that is a little lower than God AND the angels. The team in the creation narrative is Yahweh (God the Father) and the angels.
Kind regards
Trevor
Psalm 8:1,5 (KJV): 1 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens. 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
Psalm 8:5 is a summary of Genesis 1:26, defining who the “us” is in Genesis 1:26, God the Father speaking to the angels and inviting them to cooperate in making man after “our” likeness, that is a little lower than God AND the angels. The team in the creation narrative is Yahweh (God the Father) and the angels.
Kind regards
Trevor
beameup
New member
You are arguing from a very weak Jehovah's Witness'-Watchtower Society position, as you have been shown verses that clearly show that God the Son was the creator. The angels are "messengers" of God, not CREATORS. God alone is the creator. Jesus was not "Michael the Archangel".
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. - Colossians 1:16-17
God the Son is literally "holding your cells together", thus keeping you alive.
Greetings again beameup,
Kind regards
Trevor
I have on four or five occasions stated in your numerous similar threads that I am not a JW against your claims that I am a JW. Again I repeat, I could name 20 of their teachings that I strongly disagree with. Neither do I believe that Jesus was Michael the Archangel. Yes you are correct, I have not yet responded with a full explanation to your citation of Colossians 1. I will simply restate without proof at this stage, that I believe that Colossians 1 is speaking of the spiritual creation, not the Genesis creation.
Kind regards
Trevor
Hebrews 2:5 For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to angels.
Hebrews 2:8 "You have put all things in subjection under his feet.” For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him.
Galatians 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts crying out, “Abba, Father!”
Is the spiritual creation visible? Can you see angels?
Did Christ make everything that was made, and without him nothing was made that was made?