The Gospel and Christian Arrogance

[Robert Pate]

THE ABOLISHMENT OF THE OLD COVENANT, THE LAW AND THE JEWISH RELIGION.

While Jesus was dying on the cross God tore the veil that covered the "Holy of Holies" from the top to the bottom, Matthew 27:51. This was a very significant event. The "Holy of Holies" was the heart of the Jewish faith. Without the "Holy of Holies" there could not be a Jewish faith or religion. This is why Paul taught that "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17 and not according to Jewish law, customs or religion.

This is where the conflict begins. Not many of the Jews could accept Paul's doctrine that, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Those that continued to live according to the law of Moses were Judaizers. There were many Judaizers in the New Testament church, just as there are many Judizers in todays organized church.

WHAT IS THE LAW?

The law is the very nature and character of God. To keep the law you would have to be without sin. To keep the law you would have to be not like Christ, you would have to be Christ. Anything in the Bible that tells us to do something or not to do something is law. The law covers every aspect of ones life. The Jews took some of the Old Testament laws and religions and came up with the Torah. The Torah is nothing more than some of the Laws and rules of Moses.

The abolishment of the law also means the abolishment of sin. Where there is no law there can be no sin or judgment, this is why Paul wrote, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh (law) but after the Spirit" Romans 8:1. The words "law" and "religion" basically mean the same thing. When one is doing the law they are doing their religion.

WHY PEOPLE LIKE TO LIVE BY RELIGION AND NOT BY FAITH.

Those that are living by faith and not by rules, laws or religion are living by faith in Christ and his Gospel. This is the way that God wants us to live, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. Those that are living by laws, rules and religion are under a curse, Galatians 3:10. Religion is man's preoccupation with his own spirituality, which is himself. These people have no interest in Christ and his Gospel. It is all about them and their religion. Their Jesus is their religion.

Religion promotes arrogancy. Many religious people believe that they can please God by their religion. Who needs the atoneing work of Christ if you can please God by your religion? Many religious people are resting in their piety and good works for their salvation, "Lord, Lord, didn't we?" Matthew 7:21-23. All that they will hear on that day is... "Depart from me I never knew you" Jesus never knew them because they had never called on Jesus to save them. Instead of trusting in Christ for their salvation they were trying to be like him.

 

[Robert Pate]

THE ABOLISHMENT OF THE OLD COVENANT, THE LAW AND THE JEWISH RELIGION.

While Jesus was dying on the cross God tore the veil that covered the "Holy of Holies" from the top to the bottom, Matthew 27:51. This was a very significant event. The "Holy of Holies" was the heart of the Jewish faith. Without the "Holy of Holies" there could not be a Jewish faith or religion. This is why Paul taught that "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17 and not according to Jewish law, customs or religion.

This is where the conflict begins. Not many of the Jews could accept Paul's doctrine that, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Those that continued to live according to the law of Moses were Judaizers. There were many Judaizers in the New Testament church, just as there are many Judizers in todays organized church.

WHAT IS THE LAW?

The law is the very nature and character of God. To keep the law you would have to be without sin. To keep the law you would have to be not like Christ, you would have to be Christ. Anything in the Bible that tells us to do something or not to do something is law. The law covers every aspect of ones life. The Jews took some of the Old Testament laws and religions and came up with the Torah. The Torah is nothing more than some of the Laws and rules of Moses.

The abolishment of the law also means the abolishment of sin. Where there is no law there can be no sin or judgment, this is why Paul wrote, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh (law) but after the Spirit" Romans 8:1. The words "law" and "religion" basically mean the same thing. When one is doing the law they are doing their religion.

WHY PEOPLE LIKE TO LIVE BY RELIGION AND NOT BY FAITH.

Those that are living by faith and not by rules, laws or religion are living by faith in Christ and his Gospel. This is the way that God wants us to live, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. Those that are living by laws, rules and religion are under a curse, Galatians 3:10. Religion is man's preoccupation with his own spirituality, which is himself. These people have no interest in Christ and his Gospel. It is all about them and their religion. Their Jesus is their religion.

Religion promotes arrogancy. Many religious people believe that they can please God by their religion. Who needs the atoneing work of Christ if you can please God by your religion? Many religious people are resting in their piety and good works for their salvation, "Lord, Lord, didn't we?" Matthew 7:21-23. All that they will hear on that day is... "Depart from me I never knew you" Jesus never knew them because they had never called on Jesus to save them. Instead of trusting in Christ for their salvation they were trying to be like him.

Jesus said, "Few there be that find it" Matthew 7:14. What he was talking about was the strait gate that leads to eternal life. The strait gate is Jesus Christ. The broad way is the way of religion. It is Satan's job to make people think that they have found the strait gate that leads to life when they are really on the broad way that leads to destruction. People are attracted to religion simply because religion is about them. How wonderful to believe that God choose YOU to be saved before the foundation of the world. You most certainly be some sort of a wonderful thing. Satan laid the bait and you took it. Satan knows how to make religion appealing. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not about us who are sinners, The Gospel is between God the Son and God the Father. We had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with our salvation. All that we are called to do is believe and embrace it as our only means of salvation.

Not very exciting huh? No one is special, no one has been chosen before the foundation of the world. No Disney land salvation (Catholicism) nothing to do to try and make yourself holier than God. Paul makes it clear that, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. That is actually Old Testament scripture, Habakkuk 2:4. They also believed like Paul, that they were justified by faith. Even before the giving of the law the Old Testament saints believed that they were justified by faith. They believed God and it was accounted unto them for righteousness, Romans 4:3. They believed that God was going to provide them with a savior and that salvation was going to be by grace (God's goodness) through faith, Ephesians 2:8. This is just to simple for many religious people. They stumble over the stumbling stone. To them the Gospel is the rock of offense, 1 Peter 2:8.

 

[Truster]

"The law is the very nature and character of God".

Elohim is light...yes

Elohim is love...yes

Elohim is law...Where did that come from pate.

 

[Robert Pate]

"The law is the very nature and character of God".

Elohim is light...yes

Elohim is love...yes

Elohim is law...Where did that come from pate.

What you refer to as Elohim I refer to as God. He is the God of the Bible and is the God of all creation, both seen and unseen. "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven and that are in earth , visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions or principalities or powers: all things were created by him and for him: and he is before all things and by him all things consist" Colossians 1:16, 18.

There is only one righteousness, it is the righteousness of God, which is his law and his moral character.

No one will enter heaven that does not posses the righteousness of God.

 

[Truster]

What you refer to as Elohim I refer to as God. He is the God of the Bible and is the God of all creation, both seen and unseen. "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven and that are in earth , visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions or principalities or powers: all things were created by him and for him: and he is before all things and by him all things consist" Colossians 1:16, 18.

There is only one righteousness, it is the righteousness of God, which is his law and his moral character.

No one will enter heaven that does not posses the righteousness of God.

Elohim is not a "what".

Now answer the question. "Elohim is law"? where did that come from pate. I know you made it up but I want you to admit it.

 

[Robert Pate]

Elohim is not a "what".

Now answer the question. "Elohim is law"? where did that come from pate. I know you made it up but I want you to admit it.

The Bible answered your question. "He is before all things and by him all things consist" Colossians 1:17. Even his holy, just, merciful, righteous, perfect nature.

 

[daqq]

THE ABOLISHMENT OF THE OLD COVENANT, THE LAW AND THE JEWISH RELIGION.

While Jesus was dying on the cross God tore the veil that covered the "Holy of Holies" from the top to the bottom, Matthew 27:51. This was a very significant event. The "Holy of Holies" was the heart of the Jewish faith. Without the "Holy of Holies" there could not be a Jewish faith or religion. This is why Paul taught that "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17 and not according to Jewish law, customs or religion.

This is where the conflict begins. Not many of the Jews could accept Paul's doctrine that, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Those that continued to live according to the law of Moses were Judaizers. There were many Judaizers in the New Testament church, just as there are many Judizers in todays organized church.

WHAT IS THE LAW?

The law is the very nature and character of God. To keep the law you would have to be without sin. To keep the law you would have to be not like Christ, you would have to be Christ. Anything in the Bible that tells us to do something or not to do something is law. The law covers every aspect of ones life. The Jews took some of the Old Testament laws and religions and came up with the Torah. The Torah is nothing more than some of the Laws and rules of Moses.

The abolishment of the law also means the abolishment of sin. Where there is no law there can be no sin or judgment, this is why Paul wrote, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh (law) but after the Spirit" Romans 8:1. The words "law" and "religion" basically mean the same thing. When one is doing the law they are doing their religion.

WHY PEOPLE LIKE TO LIVE BY RELIGION AND NOT BY FAITH.

Those that are living by faith and not by rules, laws or religion are living by faith in Christ and his Gospel. This is the way that God wants us to live, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17. Those that are living by laws, rules and religion are under a curse, Galatians 3:10. Religion is man's preoccupation with his own spirituality, which is himself. These people have no interest in Christ and his Gospel. It is all about them and their religion. Their Jesus is their religion.

Religion promotes arrogancy. Many religious people believe that they can please God by their religion. Who needs the atoneing work of Christ if you can please God by your religion? Many religious people are resting in their piety and good works for their salvation, "Lord, Lord, didn't we?" Matthew 7:21-23. All that they will hear on that day is... "Depart from me I never knew you" Jesus never knew them because they had never called on Jesus to save them. Instead of trusting in Christ for their salvation they were trying to be like him.

So you abolish the Living Word of Elohim. You deny the Word when you deny the Torah, as even Stephen tells you that the Torah contains the LIVING WORDS of the Father. The Torah is the Word of the Father and therefore the Son of Elohim. You cut yourself off from the very Root by way of your own heretical doctrine every time you deny the Torah which is the Word of the Father:

Acts 7:37-38
37 This is that Moses, who said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall God raise up unto you from among your brethren, like unto me.
38 This is he that was in the congregation in the desert with the Angel that spoke to him in the Mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received living Oracles to give unto us:

The Torah is λογια ζωντα, Living Words, Living Oracles, Living Sayings, (LOGOS).
When you say "the law is abolished" you blaspheme Messiah the Word himself.

Romans 3:1-2
1 What advantage then has the Yhudi? or what is the profit of circumcision?
2 Much every way: first of all, that they were entrusted with the Oracles of Elohim.

τα λογια του θεου ~ "the Logia-Oracles of Elohim" ~ the Torah

Hebrews 5:12-14
12 For when by reason of the time you ought to be teachers, you have need yet again that some one teach you the rudiments of the first principles of the Oracles of Elohim; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of solid food.
13 For every one that partakes of milk is without experience of the Word of Righteousness; for he is a babe.
14 But solid food is for fully grown men, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern good and evil.

των λογιων του θεου ~ "the Logion-Oracles of Elohim" ~ the Torah
λογου δικαιοσυνης ~ "the Logos-Word of Righteousness"

And by the context within Hebrews 5:12-13 quoted above:

των λογιων του θεου = λογου δικαιοσυνης = the Torah

1 Peter 4:11
11 If anyone speak, let him speak according to the Oracles of Elohim; if anyone ministers, let him minister as from the strength which Elohim supplies: that in all things Elohim may be glorified through Meshiah Yeshua, to whom is the glory and the dominion into the ages of the ages. Amen.

λογια θεου ~ "the Oracles of Elohim" ~ the Torah

The Torah is the Living Word of the Father, the Living Oracles, the Logos, His Son.
Your doctrine abolishes the Son of Elohim which makes you a Messiah denier.

 

[Zeke]

Romans 2:28-29 which is the only circumcision that would be Paul's intent not the ritualistic letter 2Cor 3:6 that entraps the mind in false righteousness from the observatory of this worlds questionable history that blinds one to the Now Luke 17:20-21. The Jewish/Hebrewic culture is a plagiarized system that builds nationalistic pride instead of the diversity that truth has been expressed through since the foundation, or the Father would be a respecter of persons 1Cor 9:20. No Jew or Gentile, Male or Female in Christ Galatians 4:24 etc......

 

[Robert Pate]

So you abolish the Living Word of Elohim. You deny the Word when you deny the Torah, as even Stephen tells you that the Torah contains the LIVING WORDS of the Father. The Torah is the Word of the Father and therefore the Son of Elohim. You cut yourself off from the very Root by way of your own heretical doctrine every time you deny the Torah which is the Word of the Father:

Acts 7:37-38
37 This is that Moses, who said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall God raise up unto you from among your brethren, like unto me.
38 This is he that was in the congregation in the desert with the Angel that spoke to him in the Mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received living Oracles to give unto us:

The Torah is λογια ζωντα, Living Words, Living Oracles, Living Sayings, (LOGOS).
When you say "the law is abolished" you blaspheme Messiah the Word himself.

Romans 3:1-2
1 What advantage then has the Yhudi? or what is the profit of circumcision?
2 Much every way: first of all, that they were entrusted with the Oracles of Elohim.

τα λογια του θεου ~ "the Logia-Oracles of Elohim" ~ the Torah

Hebrews 5:12-14
12 For when by reason of the time you ought to be teachers, you have need yet again that some one teach you the rudiments of the first principles of the Oracles of Elohim; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of solid food.
13 For every one that partakes of milk is without experience of the Word of Righteousness; for he is a babe.
14 But solid food is for fully grown men, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern good and evil.

των λογιων του θεου ~ "the Logion-Oracles of Elohim" ~ the Torah
λογου δικαιοσυνης ~ "the Logos-Word of Righteousness"

And by the context within Hebrews 5:12-13 quoted above:

των λογιων του θεου = λογου δικαιοσυνης = the Torah

1 Peter 4:11
11 If anyone speak, let him speak according to the Oracles of Elohim; if anyone ministers, let him minister as from the strength which Elohim supplies: that in all things Elohim may be glorified through Meshiah Yeshua, to whom is the glory and the dominion into the ages of the ages. Amen.

λογια θεου ~ "the Oracles of Elohim" ~ the Torah

The Torah is the Living Word of the Father, the Living Oracles, the Logos, His Son.
Your doctrine abolishes the Son of Elohim which makes you a Messiah denier.

Your religion is obsolete. The Old Covenant, the law, and the Jewish religion have been abolished.

Paul said, "The Just Shall Live by Faith" Romans 1:17. Living by Old Testament religion is not living by faith. It is living by death. Your religion is dead.

 

[Interplanner]

Paul used 'the righteous by faith shall live' to show that being righteous by faith was valid all the way back to Abraham, in Gal 3. So the law provides some good guidance, but it has a feature to it that can make the person think they are obligating God to benefit/bless them, and that is toxic. The new way of the Gospel is that the gift of righteousness is given first and the person then honors God in his life. Sometimes this might mean some rituals, but that's rare. It meant solid ethical behavior, mostly.

 

[Robert Pate]

Romans 2:28-29 which is the only circumcision that would be Paul's intent not the ritualistic letter 2Cor 3:6 that entraps the mind in false righteousness from the observatory of this worlds questionable history that blinds one to the Now Luke 17:20-21. The Jewish/Hebrewic culture is a plagiarized system that builds nationalistic pride instead of the diversity that truth has been expressed through since the foundation, or the Father would be a respecter of persons 1Cor 9:20. No Jew or Gentile, Male or Female in Christ Galatians 4:24 etc......

Right, We are all equal in Christ, which also means there is none greater or lessor.

 

[daqq]

Your religion is obsolete. The Old Covenant, the law, and the Jewish religion have been abolished.

Paul said, "The Just Shall Live by Faith" Romans 1:17. Living by Old Testament religion is not living by faith. It is living by death. Your religion is dead.

That is downright hilarious. Your quote from Paul is therefore obsolete by your own admission and therefore your own point is null and void according to your own heretical false doctrine:

Romans 1:17
17 δικαιοσυνη γαρ θεου εν αυτω αποκαλυπτεται εκ πιστεως εις πιστιν καθως γεγραπται ο δε δικαιος εκ πιστεως ζησεται
17 For therein is revealed the righteousness of Elohim, from faith to faithfulness: as it is written, But the tzaddik shall live by [his] faith.^{Hab 2:4}

You say that the passage Paul quoted is obsolete and abolished! :rotfl:

Moreover the passage Paul quotes concerns a vision: and how many times has this already been expounded to you from Hebrews and other passages by myself in our discussions? And why do you refuse to believe the Epistle to the Hebrews which also quotes from this passage and applies it to all those who will be saved and receive the Promise?

Habakkuk 2:3-4 LXX-Septuagint
3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time, and it shall spring forth [sprout] at the end, and not in vain: though he should tarry, wait for him; for he will surely come, and will not tarry.^{Heb 10:37}
4 If he should draw back, My soul shall have no pleasure in him: but the tzaddik shall live by [because of] his faith.^{Heb 10:38}

Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.^{Hab 2:3}
38 Now the just shall live by [his] faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.^{Hab 2:4}
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe into the saving of the soul.

You cannot receive the Promise until after you have done the will of Elohim, which is to cut off sin from yourself and your own "unruly members" of your own house-body-temple "household", which Paul speaks much about and which you have already been forewarned about: for this very thing has been shown to you from this passage, and many other passages along with it, many times over now. Your time is running out, the clock is ticking, please hear, old one: you have not come to the BIBLICAL SCRIPTURAL "PLACE" of true faith until you have been tested, and that appointed time is only known to the Father, and according to Paul it is the time when a babe or a child becomes a son. But if you are instead a "bastard son", (according to the definition provided in the context surrounding Heb 12:8), then you are not going to be tested at all. Have a nice life in the mean time I suppose.

 

[Epoisses]

Moreover the passage Paul quotes concerns a vision: and how many times has this already been expounded to you from Hebrews and other passages by myself in our discussions? And why do you refuse to believe the Epistle to the Hebrews which also quotes from this passage and applies it to all those who will be saved and receive the Promise?

Daqq's an expert on visions and UFOs too!

 

[Interplanner]

That is downright hilarious. Your quote from Paul is therefore obsolete by your own admission and therefore your own point is null and void according to your own heretical false doctrine:

Romans 1:17
17 δικαιοσυνη γαρ θεου εν αυτω αποκαλυπτεται εκ πιστεως εις πιστιν καθως γεγραπται ο δε δικαιος εκ πιστεως ζησεται
17 For therein is revealed the righteousness of Elohim, from faith to faithfulness: as it is written, But the tzaddik shall live by [his] faith.^{Hab 2:4}

You say that the passage Paul quoted is obsolete and abolished! :rotfl:

Moreover the passage Paul quotes concerns a vision: and how many times has this already been expounded to you from Hebrews and other passages by myself in our discussions? And why do you refuse to believe the Epistle to the Hebrews which also quotes from this passage and applies it to all those who will be saved and receive the Promise?

Habakkuk 2:3-4 LXX-Septuagint
3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time, and it shall spring forth [sprout] at the end, and not in vain: though he should tarry, wait for him; for he will surely come, and will not tarry.^{Heb 10:37}
4 If he should draw back, My soul shall have no pleasure in him: but the tzaddik shall live by [because of] his faith.^{Heb 10:38}

Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.^{Hab 2:3}
38 Now the just shall live by [his] faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.^{Hab 2:4}
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe into the saving of the soul.

You cannot receive the Promise until after you have done the will of Elohim, which is to cut off sin from yourself and your own "unruly members" of your own house-body-temple "household", which Paul speaks much about and which you have already been forewarned about: for this very thing has been shown to you from this passage, and many other passages along with it, many times over now. Your time is running out, the clock is ticking, please hear, old one: you have not come to the BIBLICAL SCRIPTURAL "PLACE" of true faith until you have been tested, and that appointed time is only known to the Father, and according to Paul it is the time when a babe or a child becomes a son. But if you are instead a "bastard son", (according to the definition provided in the context surrounding Heb 12:8), then you are not going to be tested at all. Have a nice life in the mean time I suppose.

The quote by Paul does not automatically discount the prophet's line. he actually referenced that to say that being justified by faith was known that far back and as far back as Abraham. Therefore to rely on the law as post-exile Judaism did was to replace the Promise with the Law (Gal 3:17). The righteousness that was by faith was already known.

The eternal covenant of Christ truly did exist before the Law ever came along, in same sense that Melchizedek was a priest before Aaron. It was known before the foundation of the world, but hidden in and by how post-exile Judaism operated.

 

[daqq]

The quote by Paul does not automatically discount the prophet's line. he actually referenced that to say that being justified by faith was known that far back and as far back as Abraham. Therefore to rely on the law as post-exile Judaism did was to replace the Promise with the Law (Gal 3:17). The righteousness that was by faith was already known.

The eternal covenant of Christ truly did exist before the Law ever came along, in same sense that Melchizedek was a priest before Aaron. It was known before the foundation of the world, but hidden in and by how post-exile Judaism operated.

It was always in the scripture but hidden by the rulers of the people, the Pharisees, Sadducs, Scribes, Elders, and Kohanim-Levites, just as it remains hidden by the modern Pharisees of today: many of which go by the label "Christian", and not only do not enter into the kingdom themselves, but block others who desire to enter from entering. There is nothing new under the sun. They likewise claim to have received the Promise and do not even know what it is.