ECT The Definition of Musterion and why the Gospel was not a Mystery

[intojoy]

The Greek word musteirion is the origin of the English word “mystery.” The etymology of the word is from the Greek root mueo, meaning “to shut.” This is normally a reference to shutting the eyes. Thus the root meaning has the concept of “one who shuts his eyes.” As he shuts his eyes, he begins to meditate as things are revealed to him, so the derived meaning is “one who is initiated into the mysteries.”

In Classical Greek, which preceded the Greek of the New Testament, mueo had the following basic meanings: “a hidden thing,” “a secret ceremony,” “a secret teaching,” “a mystery,” “secret rites,” “instruments of the teaching connected with them.”

In New Testament Greek, the meaning is both technical and simple. It refers to something that was totally unrevealed in the Old Testament, and only revealed in the New Testament. For something to qualify as a New Testament mystery, then, it must be something totally unrevealed anywhere in the Old Testament. If it is knowable from the Old Testament, it is not a mystery.




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[intojoy]

How can Paul's gospel be a mystery?


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[Interplanner]

Only in the sense of 'a mystery to Judaism.' In the same sense as 'veiled.' It's there but they can't see it because of their way of seeing.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Only in the sense of 'a mystery to Judaism.' In the same sense as 'veiled.' It's there but they can't see it because of their way of seeing.

:chuckle:

 

[intojoy]

The scriptures used as evidence that Paul was the first to preach the gospel are the scriptures that say Paul was chosen to be the minister of the mysteries of the NT, so how can the gospel be a mystery?


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[Danoh]

The scriptures used as evidence that Paul was the first to preach the gospel are the scriptures that say Paul was chosen to be the minister of the mysteries of the NT, so how can the gospel be a mystery?


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Care to post two or three examples?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Care to post two or three examples?

Or provide a link?

 

[intojoy]

The Definition of Musterion and why the Gospel was not a Mystery

Care to post two or three examples?

Am I wrong to say that you MADists believe that the gospel preached by Paul was one of the mysteries? Because that was the impression I have had.

Is it possible that MADists believe the gospel of Paul was not a musterion? Because if that's the case then I would be able to quickly refute any connecting mention of Paul having "special revelation" in connection with the verses that prove Paul did receive special revelation of the mysteries of the New Testament:
1. The Mystery of the Kingdom
2. The 5 Mysteries of the Church
3. The Mystery of Israel's Hardening
4. The Mystery of the Seven Climactic Judgements and Defeat of the Two Satanic Mysteries



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[Danoh]

Am I wrong to say that you MADists believe that the gospel preached by Paul was one of the mysteries? Because that was the impression I have had.

Is it possible that MADists believe the gospel of Paul was not a musterion? Because if that's the case then I would be able to quickly refute any connecting mention of Paul having "special revelation" in connection with the verses that prove Paul did receive special revelation of the mysteries of the New Testament:
1. The Mystery of the Kingdom
2. The 5 Mysteries of the Church
3. The Mystery of Israel's Hardening
4. The Mystery of the Seven Climactic Judgements and Defeat of the Two Satanic Mysteries



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What you have been reading from so called MADs on here is not THE Mystery.

Because theirs is not even Mid-Acts.

Rather, it is a hybrid of two schools of thought (Acts 9 and Acts 28) that do not approach the study of these issues in the same way.

Theirs is an error similar to how New Covenant Theology came about - the erroneous attempt at a fusion of Acts 2 Dispensationalism with Covenant Theology.

Read one of the pdfs on the following link and see for yourself that what You have been reading on TOL is not Mid-Acts.

https://forwhatsaiththescriptures.wordpress.com/2015/10/25/acts-9-28-hybrid-theology/

 

[Danoh]

Or provide a link?

No problem. I'm about learning from whomever might add to my greater understanding of one Study PRINCIPLE or another - no matter the source or "enemy," so long as their "witness" on one thing or another "is true."

Try that some time.

 

[intojoy]

What you have been reading from so called MADs on here is not THE Mystery.

Because theirs is not even Mid-Acts.

Rather, it is a hybrid of two schools of thought (Acts 9 and Acts 28) that do not approach the study of these issues in the same way.

Theirs is an error similar to how New Covenant Theology came about - the erroneous attempt at a fusion of Acts 2 Dispensationalism with Covenant Theology.

Read one of the pdfs on the following link and see for yourself that what You have been reading on TOL is not Mid-Acts.

https://forwhatsaiththescriptures.wordpress.com/2015/10/25/acts-9-28-hybrid-theology/

Nah you didn't say please. I'm not readin that. Child.


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[Danoh]

Nah you didn't say please. I'm not readin that. Child.


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So don't be asking about what you clearly have no real interest in getting to the fact of.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

No problem. I'm about learning from whomever might add to my greater understanding of one Study PRINCIPLE or another - no matter the source or "enemy," so long as their "witness" on one thing or another "is true."

Try that some time.

Yes, the Danohianic Principle is a valuable tool in one's arsenal.

 

[Tambora]

Nah you didn't say please. I'm not readin that. Child.


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Said person has a long list of commentaries 'about' and books 'about' , in which said person relies heavily upon.

 

[intojoy]

So don't be asking about what you clearly have no real interest in getting to the fact of.

I'm just trying to find errors. Iron sharpens iron. If I'm wrong at least you guys compel me to study more. Otherwise I'd probably just watch reality tv all day long. I'm more interested now in the church's role during the 1000 years than trying to discredit MAD. Because that's going to be a long period of time.

If the bride of Christ is not with Him during His reign that means she goes thru a lennngggthy period of separation from her Husband. Is that warranted?

Also, like MADists, I believe in once saved always saved and so rather than telling Christians that they can lose their salvation I tell them that for 1000 years they will live in a state of regret that they did not live their life for the Lord while here in this life. And that there will be different degrees of authority given to the believers during Messiah's reign, some have no authority.

It is important to study and learn the entire counsel of the Word of God. That must only be done by using a strict literal hermeneutic that includes taking relevant passages into context in order to understand what has been declared.

Now if the believers of verse 4a were given to judgement, what judgement is the Holy Spirit pointing at here? Firstly John is relating prophetic content. The fact is that believers have already been raptured before the Tribulation and have already gone to the judgement of the Bema Seat of Yeshua. That judgement is for reward or loss of reward. Fruchtenbaum takes vs 4a as the first of three categories of believers that will enter the kingdom of our Husband the Messiah of Israel.
It makes no sense to me that we would not share in Messiah's kingdom and according to this passage we do partake and serve God during this time.

Israel is only special in that God called them by a national election. But that calling was on part to serve as a teaching lesson for all mankind. The lesson is that God will one day elevate Israel as head of the nations. That does not mean they are merited for that purpose it means that God keeps His word to those who don't keep their word. Thus there is no reason to assume that Israel is any better than the church in their destiny or ministry, we are equal and will have an equal share of work to do in the kingdom. The difference being that Jewish believers will live in Israel while Gentile believers will rule in other countries over the sheep nations who enter the kingdom in natural non glorified bodies who populate the planet with both those who get saved and those who die during the period.




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[john w]

It is important to study and learn the entire counsel of the Word of God. That must only be done by using a strict literal hermeneutic that includes taking relevant passages into context in order to understand what has been declared.

I need to write that one down-I had never thought of it. And the above can be employed to answer any question, on any topic.

 

[john w]

Am I wrong to say that you MADists believe that the gospel preached by Paul was one of the mysteries? Because that was the impression I have had.

Is it possible that MADists believe the gospel of Paul was not a musterion? Because if that's the case then I would be able to quickly refute any connecting mention of Paul having "special revelation" in connection with the verses that prove Paul did receive special revelation of the mysteries of the New Testament:
1. The Mystery of the Kingdom
2. The 5 Mysteries of the Church
3. The Mystery of Israel's Hardening
4. The Mystery of the Seven Climactic Judgements and Defeat of the Two Satanic Mysteries



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It is important to study and learn the entire counsel of the Word of God. That must only be done by using a strict literal hermeneutic that includes taking relevant passages into context in order to understand what has been declared.

That ought to do it.

 

[intojoy]

It is important to study and learn the entire counsel of the Word of God. That must only be done by using a strict literal hermeneutic that includes taking relevant passages into context in order to understand what has been declared.

That ought to do it.

I'm trying


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[john w]

The scriptures used as evidence that Paul was the first to preach the gospel are the scriptures that say Paul was chosen to be the minister of the mysteries of the NT, so how can the gospel be a mystery?


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It is important to study and learn the entire counsel of the Word of God. That must only be done by using a strict literal hermeneutic that includes taking relevant passages into context in order to understand what has been declared.

 

[john w]

Yes, the Danohianic Principle is a valuable tool in one's arsenal.

It is important to study and learn the entire counsel of the Word of God. That must only be done by using a strict literal hermeneutic that includes taking relevant passages into context in order to understand what has been declared.

I'm surprised at you, Mayor.