The Christian's Involvement In Governement
- Thread starter Jacob
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As much as possible. Otherwise you have a society shaped and run by the Godless and their immoralities.
Western civilization and Law is ultimately based on Judeo-Christian culture and the Ten Commandments.
Are there Christians who have nothing to do with government? And, why?
There are some, and they have their reasons, which I totally disagree with. I am not the right person to articulate their reasons
Okay.
Do you feel that it is right to want to be involved in government or politics? Why or how so? Do you want to bear the sword or something like that?
Yes, there are. Jehovah's Witnesses are the only Christians on earth who are totally neutral in all matters concerning this world's governments and military.
This is for several reasons. Jesus himself refused in John 6:14-15 to be made king. He also said at John 18:36 that his "Kingdom is no part of this world".
For true Christians today, becoming involved in government shows a lack of faith in God and His Heavenly Kingdom's ( or Government's ) ability to solve every single problem plaguing mankind today.
This involvement includes, but is not limited to, voting for individuals here on earth to try to solve man's problems, instead of patiently waiting for God Himself to do so.
For those who think that waiting for Jehovah to step in and solve all of man's problems would be a waste of time, the Israelites benefited every time they relied on Jehovah to protect them and defeat their enemies. It is no different today.
People were not created with the ability to govern themselves. We were created to be in subjection to God. As our Creator, He has the absolute right to expect that we worship Him in a way that He approves.
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List of Jewish leaders in the Land of Israel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_leaders_in_the_Land_of_Israel
The Christian's Involvement In Governement
A soldier of the civil authority must be taught not to kill men and to refuse to do so if he is commanded, and to refuse to take an oath. If he is unwilling to comply, he must be rejected for baptism. A military commander or civic magistrate must resign or be rejected. If a believer seeks to become a soldier, he must be rejected, for he has despised God.
— Hippolytus of Rome
One soul cannot be due to two masters—God and Cæsar. And yet Moses carried a rod, and Aaron wore a buckle, and John (Baptist) is girt with leather and Joshua the son of Nun leads a line of march; and the People warred: if it pleases you to sport with the subject. But how will a Christian man war, nay, how will he serve even in peace, without a sword, which the Lord has taken away? For albeit soldiers had come unto John, and had received the formula of their rule; albeit, likewise, a centurion had believed; still the Lord afterward, in disarming Peter, unbelted every soldier. No dress is lawful among us, if assigned to any unlawful action.
— Tertullian, On Idolatry Chapter 19: Concerning Military Service
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The earliest Christians were strongly discouraged from holding public office, based on the Biblical teaching that one cannot serve 2 masters - a concept that has been eroded/ignored over the centuries!
A soldier of the civil authority must be taught not to kill men and to refuse to do so if he is commanded, and to refuse to take an oath. If he is unwilling to comply, he must be rejected for baptism. A military commander or civic magistrate must resign or be rejected. If a believer seeks to become a soldier, he must be rejected, for he has despised God.
— Hippolytus of Rome
One soul cannot be due to two masters—God and Cæsar. And yet Moses carried a rod, and Aaron wore a buckle, and John (Baptist) is girt with leather and Joshua the son of Nun leads a line of march; and the People warred: if it pleases you to sport with the subject. But how will a Christian man war, nay, how will he serve even in peace, without a sword, which the Lord has taken away? For albeit soldiers had come unto John, and had received the formula of their rule; albeit, likewise, a centurion had believed; still the Lord afterward, in disarming Peter, unbelted every soldier. No dress is lawful among us, if assigned to any unlawful action.
— Tertullian, On Idolatry Chapter 19: Concerning Military Service
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The earliest Christians were strongly discouraged from holding public office, based on the Biblical teaching that one cannot serve 2 masters - a concept that has been eroded/ignored over the centuries!
Interesting. I do not know what to say. What do you think about it?
The early Christians felt so strongly about this topic that they refused to baptise anyone holding public office - despite superficial differences, have we any reason to believe that modern secular governments are more "Godly" than those that preceded them?
Interesting. I do not know what to say... other than for you to borrow a Bible and read about the baptism of Cornelius, a Roman Centurion (he oversaw anywhere from 100 to 1,000 men) who was baptized by the Apostle Peter.
Tax collectors and other soldiers were also baptized.
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And your explanation of Romans 13: 1-7; 1 Timothy 1:8-10 and 1 Peter 2:13-14?
As a centurion who remained in the service of the Roman emperor whom he had sworn to obey, Cornelius would have also been obligated to follow orders for the persecution of other Christians and the crucifixion of Jesus, Paul, Peter .....
But you wrote this in an earlier post:
Yet Cornelius was baptized, as were others that worked in the public sector (tax collectors and other soldiers). I don't think that you're familiar with baptisms, but loyalty to anyone other than God comes a far distant second.
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Would it be godly to put a murderer to death? What does the Torah say?
l must have missed the verses in the New Testament where Christ condoned "murder," if its done on behalf of the STATE!
Are we operating under the assumption that God holds the STATE to a different moral standard than the individual - does "I was just following orders" absolve us from the responsibility for our actions?
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Aimiel
Well-known member
If you truly feel this way, then going to the grocery store (or planting crops, if you're a farmer) is un-belief because you should expect God to rain down Manna to feed you. You should never put on a bandage or even wash a wound, because you should expect God to just heal you. God doesn't want us to become Christian and then expect to float away to Heaven on a bed of flowers. He wants us to take heart in the fact that Jesus overcame death, hell and the grave but we still need to live for Him and strive to enter into the 'rest' that faith in His Word provides. He never promised that we wouldn't have problems to have to deal with every single day but did promise to be right there with us, every single second of every day. He is. His Presence overcomes all that has to do with putting our defeated enemy in his rightful place (under our feet) which He is constantly teaching us more about the meaning of His Words in that regard, not in ignoring that enemy or being too lazy or stupid to do anything about it. All that it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing. Had any good man in history taken your advice (Constantine, Washington, Lincoln or Kennedy as prime examples) this world would still belong to Satan and would be completely different than what we see today. Evil flourishes, but not because good men are doing nothing about it; rather, we're doing the best we can under God's Guidance and Leadership.
He certainly doesn't approve of laziness or ignorance. We need good strong Christian leadership. We need to have Christians in the military. We need to take part in our government. God designed this country to complete the Great Commission and we're going to see it through.
Aimiel
Well-known member
First and foremost: praying for all who have ANY authority whatsoever, so that all men might worship God in peace in their own way. Second: we should speak up against any and all injustice and take whatever office God directs us to fill. He wants strong Christian believers to be in authority.
:aimiel:
I am not talking about the state whatever that might mean. I am asking if you murder because you are not under the law. Not under the law means something, and it doesn't mean something else.
What if life isn't about taking authority? Just a question.