Such were some of you. Hot button topic being homosexuality.

[Jacob]

It is my understanding that when a person has sinned they are labeled a sinner of that kind. But here we have that it can be said of some people that they used to be that way. This is good news. What do you believe about Christians who used to be sinners?

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 NASB - 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor [the] covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

 

[ok doser]

What do you believe about Christians who used to be sinners?

i'm glad they found Christ

 

[Jacob]

i'm glad they found Christ

It is a good thing, yes.

 

[Stripe]

It's not OK to be gay.

 

[Jacob]

It's not OK to be gay.

Correct. And people can change.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

i'm glad they found Christ

If you believe their repentance was genuine, that is.. :think:

 

[ok doser]

If you believe their repentance was genuine, that is.. :think:

that's above my pay grade

 

[Danoh]

It is my understanding that when a person has sinned they are labeled a sinner of that kind. But here we have that it can be said of some people that they used to be that way. This is good news. What do you believe about Christians who used to be sinners?

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 NASB - 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor [the] covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

He is reminding them that such WERE some of them in contrast to who they now ARE in Christ, despite, obviously, their having returned to their previous BEHAVIOUR.

One is the issue of their New IDENTITY in Christ, the other is the issue of BEHAVIOUR the Believer is no longer to walk in, given his or her New IDENTITY in Christ.

This distinction between who the Believer now IS in Christ, and what his or her BEHAVIOURS are / are not to be, given said New IDENTITY in Christ, is a common theme in Paul's writings.

Notice the two in the following...

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

That is now the New Identity, that the following is based on...

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Here it is again - his call for Behaviour in line with the New Identity...

Philippians 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Conversation: Early Modern English word for "manner of life."

And so on...

Because Romans 5:6-8, in each...our stead.

 

[Jacob]

He is reminding them that such WERE some of them in contrast to who they now ARE in Christ, despite, obviously, their having returned to their previous BEHAVIOUR.

One is the issue of their New IDENTITY in Christ, the other is the issue of BEHAVIOUR the Believer is no longer to walk in, given his or her New IDENTITY in Christ.

This distinction between who the Believer now IS in Christ, and what his or her BEHAVIOURS are / are not to be, given said New IDENTITY in Christ, is a common theme in Paul's writings.

Notice the two in the following...

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

That is now the New Identity, that the following is based on...

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Here it is again - his call for Behaviour in line with the New Identity...

Philippians 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

Conversation: Early Modern English word for "manner of life."

And so on...

Because Romans 5:6-8, in each...our stead.

Very good. Very well. Thank you.

 

[The Horn]

As a non-christian , I don't think being homosexual is any more a
"sin " than being left-handed . I'm heterosexual but a southpaw . Did I "choose " to be a leftie? . No. This is just they way I am . I was born this way . It's the same with gay people . Why would anyone "choose " to be gay in a world which is so hostile to gay people ? Does this make any sense ? Homosexuality has existed from the very beginning of the human race and will always exist . And it's found in hundreds of animal species . But humans are the only animal species in which some of the species hate gay people and want to deny them rights and persecute them .
So if some Christians think homosexuality is a sin , tough noogies . They should just mind their own business and leave gay people alone . They should concentrate on their own lives and their own faults and trying to make themselves better people . They need to get a life .
Gay people have never harmed me or anyone in my family . They've never barged into my home trying to force me to become gay .
And there is no such thing as an "ex gay ", any more than there are ex left handed people . All so-called "ex gays " have been brainwashed , and they all eventually return to what they always were . All ex gays " are from Christian families , and have been taught to feel irrational shame for doing what comes naturally . Gay conversion "therapy " is a dangerous fraud . Many young gays from Christian homes have committed suicide because they have been brainwashed to feel shame at themselves . But young gays who have supportive , tolerant parents are fortunately never subjected to this form of mental torture , and they grow to be well adjusted adults . Sorry if I offended anyone here, but my opinions about homosexuality are shared by millions other Americans .

 

[Stripe]

To be a liberal these days, you have to believe that men have no choice when they rape boys, but can choose to be a girl.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

And there is no such thing as an "ex gay ", any more than there are ex left handed people . All so-called "ex gays " have been brainwashed , and they all eventually return to what they always were . All ex gays " are from Christian families , and have been taught to feel irrational shame for doing what comes naturally . Gay conversion "therapy " is a dangerous fraud . Many young gays from Christian homes have committed suicide because they have been brainwashed to feel shame at themselves . But young gays who have supportive , tolerant parents are fortunately never subjected to this form of mental torture , and they grow to be well adjusted adults . Sorry if I offended anyone here, but my opinions about homosexuality are shared by millions other Americans .

The other thing about the Ex-gay movement is they either don't understand or completely ignore that bisexuals exist.

 

[Stripe]

My opinions about homosexuality are shared by millions other Americans .

Darwinists love to imagine that a crowd of people is behind them applauding.

 

[The Horn]

Straw man . No liberal approves of pedophilia . Having a sex change harms no one else . False equivalency .

 

[ok doser]

No liberal approves of pedophilia .

:freak:

you think all those homo child molesting Catholic priests were conservatives?

 

[Jacob]

As a non-christian , I don't think being homosexual is any more a
"sin " than being left-handed . I'm heterosexual but a southpaw . Did I "choose " to be a leftie? . No. This is just they way I am . I was born this way . It's the same with gay people . Why would anyone "choose " to be gay in a world which is so hostile to gay people ? Does this make any sense ? Homosexuality has existed from the very beginning of the human race and will always exist . And it's found in hundreds of animal species . But humans are the only animal species in which some of the species hate gay people and want to deny them rights and persecute them .

It is interesting that humans make decisions like this, but I believe that animals have a sense of morality as well. However, when mankind is referred to as animals or animalistic we tend to think that someone is saying the man or woman is living as the animals, without morals. Denying rights may be a form of persecution or judgment without an act of homosexuality having been committed or proved. Lovingly winning people to Christ might be preferred by some.

So if some Christians think homosexuality is a sin , tough noogies . They should just mind their own business and leave gay people alone . They should concentrate on their own lives and their own faults and trying to make themselves better people . They need to get a life .
Gay people have never harmed me or anyone in my family . They've never barged into my home trying to force me to become gay .

Some who are Christian believe that nothing should ever be done against homosexuals, despite the fact that homosexuality is a crime albeit against the other person and against God especially if it is without any action or activity, such as a tendency or predisposition toward homosexuality that manifests in the emotions etc.... The point is that aside from law against homosexuality we have people that live their lives genuinely caring about homosexuals and all other sinners, while seeking to better themselves as well perhaps.

And there is no such thing as an "ex gay ", any more than there are ex left handed people . All so-called "ex gays " have been brainwashed , and they all eventually return to what they always were . All ex gays " are from Christian families , and have been taught to feel irrational shame for doing what comes naturally . Gay conversion "therapy " is a dangerous fraud . Many young gays from Christian homes have committed suicide because they have been brainwashed to feel shame at themselves . But young gays who have supportive , tolerant parents are fortunately never subjected to this form of mental torture , and they grow to be well adjusted adults . Sorry if I offended anyone here, but my opinions about homosexuality are shared by millions other Americans .

I am right handed but I can write with my left hand, whether Hebrew or English. I am not sure what conversion therapy is about. I do feel that people should care about others in so far as they should care about them living right the way all people should as we all should.

 

[Jacob]

To be a liberal these days, you have to believe that men have no choice when they rape boys, but can choose to be a girl.

Well, that's no good.

 

[JudgeRightly]

No liberal approves of pedophilia.

Incorrect:

From https://kgov.com/homosexuality-debate-bob-enyart-vs-wayne-besen#pedophiles:

(Content inappropriate for public exposition has been placed within SPOILER tags. Click the link above to view without the spoiler tags. You have been warned.)

Wayne Besen discounted the widespread tolerance and even promotion of pedophilia among leading homosexuals and organizations. For example, Besen said that only the most fringe homosexuals tolerated sex with kids. Yet Bob Enyart asked Besen if he has ever heard of the following mainstream homosexual publications and leaders who have defended pedophila. - Out magazine and Harvey Milk: Damien Martin, the head of New York City's homosexual Harvey Milk High School was quoted positively by Jesse Green in a leading homosexual publication, Out magazine, saying, "No kid has ever been hurt by [oral sex]". - Allen Ginsburg: The homosexual yet nationally-acclaimed poet became a member of and defended the pedophile group NAMBLA. Yet his accolades include being honored honored by Boulder, Colorado which annually gave him the key to the city. - The Advocate: This popular homosexual magazine published Carl Maves asking, "How many gay men, I wonder, would have missed out on a valuable, liberating experience - one that initiated them into their sexuality - if it weren't for so-called molestation?" in their article despicably titled "Getting Over It." (Perhaps Besen would also remember the "Recruit, Recruit, Recruit" article about kids also published in The Advocate.) - Planned Parenthood distributes a flier (which we picked up from their "resource center", titled I think I might be a lesbian. Now what do I do? Excerpts: Spoiler "You may feel very scared at the thought of having sex with another woman. That’s OK. Lots of us do, especially if it's our first time… We can give each other pleasure by holding, kissing, hugging, stroking, rubbing our bodies together, inserting our fingers into each other’s vaginas, stimulating each other’s genitals with our hands and our tongues, inserting our fingers into each other's vaginas, rubbing our bodies together to stimulate each other, and anything else we want to do." [BEL learned about this when they gave this "Brochure for young women" to girls at a local Harvest Festival.] - Salon.com: 2017 Update. The popular liberal media outlet, Salon, published pro-pedophile articles written by Todd Nickerson and then removed them two years later, obviously just so liberals could feel good about condemning, rightly, Milo Yiannopoulos). And here's an example of another leftist celebrity and high-profile outlet willing to defend the rape of children (this time, heterosexual rape): https://youtu.be/sHflBPU-DtA - Alyson Publications, Daddy's Roommate, Heather's Mommies and Paedophilia: Initially, although it canceled the Bob Enyart Live account because of our "homophobia", Amazon.com was selling the Alyson book Paedophilia that advocated sex with children. When he insisted that only the gay fringe tolerated sex with children, Bob asked Wayne Besen if he had heard of Alyson Publications of Boston, a leading homosexual publisher. Yes, Besen had heard of the publishers of, among hundreds of titles, the infamous and pro-homosexual kids books, Heather has Two Mommies, Daddy's Roommate, and Gloria Goes to Gay Pride. But when Enyart asked Wayne Besen to condemn Alyson for publishing Paedophilia: The Radical Case, with 300 pages of why and how to have sex with even preteen boys, Besen himself refused!

(More later on in the article.)

:think:

Horn, would you please retract your claim that "no liberal approves of pedophilia"?

Horn, would you condemn those liberals who support pedophilia, right here and now?

Having a sex change harms no one else.

It harms the individual AND the people around him, along with harming society as a whole.

 

[The Horn]

Judge rightly , the notion that liberals "condone" pedophilia is absolute poppycock . It's an idiotic urban legend spread by right-wing extremist conspiracy theory mongers .
And no, having a sex change does not harm anyone else or society in general . It can create problems for those who have them because of the widespread bigotry against trans people in America, but it doesn't violate Nankeen else's rights . Have YOU been harmed by the existence of trans people in America ? I doubt it .

 

[JudgeRightly]

Incorrect:

From https://kgov.com/homosexuality-debate-bob-enyart-vs-wayne-besen#pedophiles:

(Content inappropriate for public exposition has been placed within SPOILER tags. Click the link above to view without the spoiler tags. You have been warned.)

Wayne Besen discounted the widespread tolerance and even promotion of pedophilia among leading homosexuals and organizations. For example, Besen said that only the most fringe homosexuals tolerated sex with kids. Yet Bob Enyart asked Besen if he has ever heard of the following mainstream homosexual publications and leaders who have defended pedophila. - Out magazine and Harvey Milk: Damien Martin, the head of New York City's homosexual Harvey Milk High School was quoted positively by Jesse Green in a leading homosexual publication, Out magazine, saying, "No kid has ever been hurt by [oral sex]". - Allen Ginsburg: The homosexual yet nationally-acclaimed poet became a member of and defended the pedophile group NAMBLA. Yet his accolades include being honored honored by Boulder, Colorado which annually gave him the key to the city. - The Advocate: This popular homosexual magazine published Carl Maves asking, "How many gay men, I wonder, would have missed out on a valuable, liberating experience - one that initiated them into their sexuality - if it weren't for so-called molestation?" in their article despicably titled "Getting Over It." (Perhaps Besen would also remember the "Recruit, Recruit, Recruit" article about kids also published in The Advocate.) - Planned Parenthood distributes a flier (which we picked up from their "resource center", titled I think I might be a lesbian. Now what do I do? Excerpts: Spoiler "You may feel very scared at the thought of having sex with another woman. That’s OK. Lots of us do, especially if it's our first time… We can give each other pleasure by holding, kissing, hugging, stroking, rubbing our bodies together, inserting our fingers into each other’s vaginas, stimulating each other’s genitals with our hands and our tongues, inserting our fingers into each other's vaginas, rubbing our bodies together to stimulate each other, and anything else we want to do." [BEL learned about this when they gave this "Brochure for young women" to girls at a local Harvest Festival.] - Salon.com: 2017 Update. The popular liberal media outlet, Salon, published pro-pedophile articles written by Todd Nickerson and then removed them two years later, obviously just so liberals could feel good about condemning, rightly, Milo Yiannopoulos). And here's an example of another leftist celebrity and high-profile outlet willing to defend the rape of children (this time, heterosexual rape): https://youtu.be/sHflBPU-DtA - Alyson Publications, Daddy's Roommate, Heather's Mommies and Paedophilia: Initially, although it canceled the Bob Enyart Live account because of our "homophobia", Amazon.com was selling the Alyson book Paedophilia that advocated sex with children. When he insisted that only the gay fringe tolerated sex with children, Bob asked Wayne Besen if he had heard of Alyson Publications of Boston, a leading homosexual publisher. Yes, Besen had heard of the publishers of, among hundreds of titles, the infamous and pro-homosexual kids books, Heather has Two Mommies, Daddy's Roommate, and Gloria Goes to Gay Pride. But when Enyart asked Wayne Besen to condemn Alyson for publishing Paedophilia: The Radical Case, with 300 pages of why and how to have sex with even preteen boys, Besen himself refused!

(More later on in the article.)

:think:

Horn, would you please retract your claim that "no liberal approves of pedophilia"?

Horn, would you condemn those liberals who support pedophilia, right here and now?



It harms the individual AND the people around him, along with harming society as a whole.

Judge rightly, the notion that liberals "condone" pedophilia is absolute poppycock.

Appeal to ridicule.

It's also false, considering I just provided you with multiple instances of liberals condoning pedophilia. See above.

Horn, since I have provided you with evidence that shows that liberals do, in fact, condone pedophilia, would you please retract your statement that "no liberal approves of pedophilia"?

It's an idiotic urban legend spread by right-wing extremist conspiracy theory mongers.

Appeal to the stone.

I have provided evidence to the contrary. Dismissing it outright isn't going to help you.

And no, having a sex change does not harm anyone else or society in general.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Allowing people to express their perversion by mutilating their bodies is unhealthy for the person having it done to them, the one doing the surgery, and the rest of society in some way or another.

It tears down the boundaries of what is normal.

It can create problems for those who have them because of the widespread bigotry against trans people in America, but it doesn't violate anyone else's rights.

:allsmile: "People who are against perverts doing perverted thing are bigots" = Horn

Christianity and homosexuality are mutually exclusive. Religious freedom is a right that all have. Homosexuality (et al) is an abomination, not a right.

Have YOU been harmed by the existence of trans people in America? I doubt it.

I have.