Should Taste Death For Every Man

[Jerry Shugart]

Let us look at this verse and the Greek word translated "for":

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for (hyper) every man" (Heb.2:9).​

In this verse the Greek word hyper is translated "for" and one of the meanings of that word is "on behalf of." In Vine's we read the following definition of the Greek word hyper: " 'on behalf of,' is to be distinguished from 'anti,' 'instead of'" (Vine's Expository Dictionary of the New Testament).

That explains the following translation of Hebrews 2:9:

"Jesus was made a little lower than the angels, but we see him crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death. Through God's kindness he died on behalf of everyone" (Heb.2:9; GOD'S WORD Translation).​

In the Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges we read " 'on behalf of' (hyper), not 'as a substitution for' (anti)" (Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges, Commentary at Hebrews 2:9).

So we can understand that Christ tasted death on behalf of every man but not as a substitute for every man. Now let us look at this verse:

"Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for (anti) many" (Mt.20:28).​

One of the meanings of the Greek word anti is "offical substitution, instead of" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So we can see that Christ tasted death on behalf of every man but He only died as a substitution of many but not all.

He died on behalf of all men but only those who believe in Him will receive the blessings which flow from the Cross.

 

[Robert Pate]

Let us look at this verse and the Greek word translated "for":

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for (hyper) every man" (Heb.2:9).​

In this verse the Greek word hyper is translated "for" and one of the meanings of that word is "on behalf of." In Vine's we read the following definition of the Greek word hyper: " 'on behalf of,' is to be distinguished from 'anti,' 'instead of'" (Vine's Expository Dictionary of the New Testament).

That explains the following translation of Hebrews 2:9:

"Jesus was made a little lower than the angels, but we see him crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death. Through God's kindness he died on behalf of everyone" (Heb.2:9; GOD'S WORD Translation).​

In the Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges we read " 'on behalf of' (hyper), not 'as a substitution for' (anti)" (Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges, Commentary at Hebrews 2:9).

So we can understand that Christ tasted death on behalf of every man but not as a substitute for every man. Now let us look at this verse:

"Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for (anti) many" (Mt.20:28).​

One of the meanings of the Greek word anti is "offical substitution, instead of" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So we can see that Christ tasted death on behalf of every man but He only died as a substitution of many but not all.

He died on behalf of all men but only those who believe in Him will receive the blessings which flow from the Cross.

What are you going to do with 1 John 2:2 and 1 John 4:14.

Even Jesus himself claims to be the savior of the world, John 12:47.

If Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world, then Jesus is not Lord. If Jesus is not Lord then we are all still in our sins.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

If Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world, then Jesus is not Lord.

According to you the sins of all men were expiated at the Cross.If all sins were expiated at the Cross then why would Peter says that it takes "faith" to have one's sins taken away?:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:38).​

Please answer my question:

If all sins were expiated at the Cross then why would Peter says that it takes "faith" to have one's sins taken away?​

 

[Interplanner]

It is not as though faith was a work to add to a Christ. It is just empty hands receiving the gift of Christ.

You're splitting hairs that don't matter Jerry.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It is not as though faith was a work to add to a Christ. It is just empty hands receiving the gift of Christ.

No one said that "faith" is a work to add to Christ.

You're splitting hairs that don't matter Jerry.

My feelings will not be hurt if you make an exit from this thread.

 

[Robert Pate]

According to you the sins of all men were expiated at the Cross.If all sins were expiated at the Cross then why would Peter says that it takes "faith" to have one's sins taken away?:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:38).​

Please answer my question:

If all sins were expiated at the Cross then why would Peter says that it takes "faith" to have one's sins taken away?​

It is by faith that all that Christ accomplished in our name and on our behalf becomes ours and reconciles us to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

There is no saving merit in faith. It is the object of our faith that saves, Jesus Christ.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It is by faith that all that Christ accomplished in our name and on our behalf becomes ours and reconciles us to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

There is no saving merit in faith. It is the object of our faith that saves, Jesus Christ.

Nothing you said there answers my question:

If all sins were expiated at the Cross then why would Peter says that it takes "faith" to have one's sins taken away?​

 

[Zeke]

Yet physical death still reins in this kingdom of flesh and blood just like it always has, the other death spoke of is a state of death/ dead still alive physically but dead to the Divine seed lying dormant in them, this was the death dealt with by the Christ seed that falls to earth/body and dies awaiting its variable rebirths spiritually, John being a state of the best of the first born Matt 11:11, shows Jesus represented the first born of the Divine spirit in man, not among flesh.

 

[Robert Pate]

Nothing you said there answers my question:

If all sins were expiated at the Cross then why would Peter says that it takes "faith" to have one's sins taken away?​

Peter said a lot of things, he also said that repentance and baptism saves, Acts 2:38.

We have to realize that the Gospel was not fully or correctly known for some time after the resurrection of Jesus.

Peter did not fully understand the Gospel or he would not have gone under the table when the Judaizers appeared at the Wednesday night dinner, Galatians 2:11, 12, 13, 14.

Paul had to straighten him out, Galatians 2:15-21.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

We have to realize that the Gospel was not fully or correctly known for some time after the resurrection of Jesus.

So even though Peter had received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost to guide him in all truth he was in error when he said this?:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:38).​

And I guess that you will say that Paul was in error when he placed the taking away of sins in the future in this passage:

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins" (Ro.11:26-27).​

How can sins be taken away in the future if the sins of all people were expiated at the Cross?

 

[Robert Pate]

So even though Peter had received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost to guide him in all truth he was in error when he said this?:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:38).​

And I guess that you will say that Paul was in error when he placed the taking away of sins in the future in this passage:

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins" (Ro.11:26-27).​

How can sins be taken away in the future if the sins of all people were expiated at the Cross?

This may be difficult to understand but God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20.

As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed, Colossians 1:20.

However, this does not mean that everyone is saved. What it means is that now... "Whosoever that calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13. Simply because the righteousness of Christ is imputed to those who believe in Jesus.

If Jesus had not defeated sin, death and the devil no one could be saved.

 

[patrick jane]

What are you going to do with 1 John 2:2 and 1 John 4:14.

Even Jesus himself claims to be the savior of the world, John 12:47.

If Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world, then Jesus is not Lord. If Jesus is not Lord then we are all still in our sins.

exactly, Robert. and many other scriptures - again, jerry makes a post and then declares something as fact. then he interviews everyone and asks more and more questions. he's wrong again no matter which Bible version he uses in any language -

maybe Christ didn't die for jerry -

 

[Jerry Shugart]

This may be difficult to understand but God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20.

That is not what Colossians 1:20 says. If the LORD sees all things in the Son then why would he say this to Paul about unbelievers?:

"delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom I send thee, to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me" (Acts 26:17-18).​

If you think that the LORD saw these unbelievers in the Son then why would He speak of them as being in darkness and under the power of Satan? Anyone with the slightest degree of spiritual discernment can understand that the LORD was not seeing the unbelievers in the Son!

Besides that, it is obvious that the sins of all people were not expiated at the Cross because according to the LORD Paul's mission was for the purpose of taking away the sins of the unsaved.

How do you explain that?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

exactly, Robert. and many other scriptures-

So you are in agreement with Robert when he asserted that Peter was in error when he said this?:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:38).​

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

exactly, Robert. and many other scriptures - again, jerry makes a post and then declares something as fact. then he interviews everyone and asks more and more questions. he's wrong again no matter which Bible version he uses in any language -

maybe Christ didn't die for jerry -

Jerry S, is the "proverbial pain in the neck."

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Jerry asks questions then, tells you you're completely wrong.
Why? Because, he knows it all. If ya don't believe me, just
ask him. He'll say, "I know it all."

 

[Robert Pate]

That is not what Colossians 1:20 says. If the LORD sees all things in the Son then why would he say this to Paul about unbelievers?:

"delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom I send thee, to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me" (Acts 26:17-18).​

If you think that the LORD saw these unbelievers in the Son then why would He speak of them as being in darkness and under the power of Satan? Anyone with the slightest degree of spiritual discernment can understand that the LORD was not seeing the unbelievers in the Son!

Besides that, it is obvious that the sins of all people were not expiated at the Cross because according to the LORD Paul's mission was for the purpose of taking away the sins of the unsaved.

How do you explain that?

To not believe that God sees ALL THINGS in his in his Son Jesus Christ, is to not believe the Gospel.

"For of him (Jesus) and through him, and to him, are ALL THINGS: to whom be glory for ever. Amen" Romans 11:36.

 

[Robert Pate]

Jerry asks questions then, tells you you're completely wrong.
Why? Because, he knows it all. If ya don't believe me, just
ask him. He'll say, "I know it all."

Jerry doesn't understand the Gospel, 2 Corinthians 4:3, 4.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

To not believe that God sees ALL THINGS in his in his Son Jesus Christ, is to not believe the Gospel.

"For of him (Jesus) and through him, and to him, are ALL THINGS: to whom be glory for ever. Amen" Romans 11:36.

This verse says nothing about being "in Him." The verse you are quoting is in regard to Colossians 1:16-17:

"For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together" (Col.1:16-17).​

Now I have answered you it is your time to answer me about these words of the LORD where He gives Paul a commission to preach to the Gentiles:

"...delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom I send thee, to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me" (Acts 26:17-18).​

Here we can see that the LORD sent Paul to the Gentiles so "that they may receive remission of sins."

How could it be possible for those Gentiles to have their sins taken away if you are right and all of men's sins had already been taken away at the Cross?

 

[glorydaz]

Jerry doesn't understand the Gospel, 2 Corinthians 4:3, 4.

Short, sweet and to the point. :e4e: