Shalom. You shall not murder.

[Jacob]

Shalom.

I am a Jew, and Torah observant. I believe in Yeshua as the Messiah, and I accept the new covenant which is God's law written on minds and hearts for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. I am Jewish, of Israel, following or observing Judaism, as a proselyte and a convert. I live in the United States of America, where I am a citizen since birth.

There is a command in the Torah, one of the Ten Commandments actually, that says that we should not murder. There are other places that murder is shown to be against God and the punishment is always death. If you object to this I would like to hear your rationale. I just want to point this out because many people do not know about the Commandment and it's punishment. Telling people about the Commandments should not cause more people to break them, but less or fewer. We need to explain that God's Commandments are about love of God and love of our neighbor, our fellow Jew, or fellow man.

There is much to this Commandment. However, in the OP I will add only one more comment in addition to telling you that we can discuss more in the thread. It is that many say you shall not kill, and this is true... but that some distinguish murder from killing only when we are talking about God's law and someone being killed for murder or breaking a law of God that results in a death penalty as the punishment.

(edit- I can add one more paragraph, already typed here now after the rest) I hope this finds you well and that you grow in your understanding of God and His Law. You can also ask about the new covenant, which is God's law written on minds and hearts in Yeshua Messiah, for the house of Israel and the house of Judah, and that it is not like the old.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[intojoy]

You are a liar and teach doctrines of Satan


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[Jacob]

You are a liar and teach doctrines of Satan

Shalom.

I do not know why you are saying this. Please explain your words or expound on what you are saying.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Truster]

You are a liar means you don't speak the truth.

Satan will turn anyone from the evangelism by teaching obedience to the law of Moses.

 

[Jacob]

Shalom.

You are a liar means you don't speak the truth.

I understand what you are saying if it is what he was saying. I do not accept that I am a liar. I am not a liar. How what I said could be perceived as not the truth I do not know.

Satan will turn anyone from the evangelism by teaching obedience to the law of Moses.

I do not know what you are saying. All of God's Commandments are for Israel to observe, and I am of Israel. I do not believe that the Law has been abolished. Please read the following about observing and teaching God's Commandments.

Matthew 5:17-20​

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[marhig]

Shalom.I understand what you are saying if it is what he was saying. I do not accept that I am a liar. I am not a liar. How what I said could be perceived as not the truth I do not know.
I do not know what you are saying. All of God's Commandments are for Israel to observe, and I am of Israel. I do not believe that the Law has been abolished. Please read the following about observing and teaching God's Commandments.

Matthew 5:17-20​

Shalom.

Jacob

All those born of God are of Israel, and the way is through Christ Jesus. He is the way, the truth and the life and no-one comes to the father except through him.

I agree regarding the laws written in our hearts and in our minds.

Hebrews 10

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works

 

[Truster]

Shalom.I understand what you are saying if it is what he was saying. I do not accept that I am a liar. I am not a liar. How what I said could be perceived as not the truth I do not know.
I do not know what you are saying. All of God's Commandments are for Israel to observe, and I am of Israel. I do not believe that the Law has been abolished. Please read the following about observing and teaching God's Commandments.

Matthew 5:17-20​

Shalom.

Jacob

I didn't say that the law has been abolished. Attributing things to me that I have not said is lying.

 

[Jacob]

All those born of God are of Israel, and the way is through Christ Jesus. He is the way, the truth and the life and no-one comes to the father except through him.

I agree regarding the laws written in our hearts and in our minds.

Hebrews 10

This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works

Shalom.

You may be connecting verses incorrectly. You should watch out that you do not do so.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Jacob]

I didn't say that the law has been abolished. Attributing things to me that I have not said is lying.

Shalom.

I did not say that you said that the Law has been abolished. I said that I know that the Law has NOT been abolished.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[daqq]

Shalom.

I am a Jew, and Torah observant. I believe in Yeshua as the Messiah, and I accept the new covenant which is God's law written on minds and hearts for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. I am Jewish, of Israel, following or observing Judaism, as a proselyte and a convert. I live in the United States of America, where I am a citizen since birth.

There is a command in the Torah, one of the Ten Commandments actually, that says that we should not murder. There are other places that murder is shown to be against God and the punishment is always death. If you object to this I would like to hear your rationale. I just want to point this out because many people do not know about the Commandment and it's punishment. Telling people about the Commandments should not cause more people to break them, but less or fewer. We need to explain that God's Commandments are about love of God and love of our neighbor, our fellow Jew, or fellow man.

There is much to this Commandment. However, in the OP I will add only one more comment in addition to telling you that we can discuss more in the thread. It is that many say you shall not kill, and this is true... but that some distinguish murder from killing only when we are talking about God's law and someone being killed for murder or breaking a law of God that results in a death penalty as the punishment.

(edit- I can add one more paragraph, already typed here now after the rest) I hope this finds you well and that you grow in your understanding of God and His Law. You can also ask about the new covenant, which is God's law written on minds and hearts in Yeshua Messiah, for the house of Israel and the house of Judah, and that it is not like the old.

Shalom.

Jacob

Yeah, it says "You shall not murder-kill.", period, no stipulations.

It does not say whether or not it means, "just people", or "not necessarily meaning animals which are also living souls", or "go ahead and decide according to your lust for flesh what I may or may not mean", no, it simply says:

"YOU SHALL NOT MURDER-KILL." (PERIOD).

 

[Jacob]

Yeah, it says "You shall not murder-kill.", period, no stipulations.

It does not say whether or not it means, "just people", or "not necessarily meaning animals which are also living souls", or "go ahead and decide according to your lust for flesh what I may or may not mean", no, it simply says:

"YOU SHALL NOT MURDER-KILL." (PERIOD).

Shalom.

To murder is to take the life of another human being, your fellow man, your fellow Jew, contrary to the Law. To kill someone who has murdered someone else may be against the Law. That is why it is important to understand the Law and do what is right. There are Commandments like you shall not murder that are punishable by death. We need to read, study, and understand God's Law. There may be a Judge, a City of Refuge, and in the case of a family, a family member who is the Avenger of Death. I can't remember the term right now. Did I get it right? Accidental Death also needs to be considered and / or investigated.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[daqq]

Shalom.

To murder is to take the life of another human being, your fellow man, your fellow Jew, contrary to the Law. To kill someone who has murdered someone else may be against the Law. That is why it is important to understand the Law and do what is right. There are Commandments like you shall not murder that are punishable by death. We need to read, study, and understand God's Law. There may be a Judge, a City of Refuge, and in the case of a family, a family member who is the Avenger of Death. I can't remember the term right now. Did I get it right? Accidental Death also needs to be considered and / or investigated.

Shalom.

Jacob

Even what you say is still not half the truth because it does not take into account what Messiah says about murder(s).

Matthew 15:18-19
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Do you see what that says? What comes forth from the mouth proceeds from the heart. After "evil thoughts" the next thing listed is "murders", and therefore the commandment, which is spiritual, is not only speaking of physical things; for the Master says that murders come forth from the heart. If therefore there is murder in the heart then that same murder will come forth from the mouth and reveal itself by the words a person speaks. That is likewise the background reasoning for what is also written concerning this teaching in 1John 3:15.

However I did not even go so far as to speak in such terms, but instead, I spoke of animals which are living souls. If a cow could speak and respond to you, and if you were to ask the cow whether or not it would be considered murder to slit its throat, drain its blood, butcher it up into pieces, cook its flesh, and eat it: what do you suppose the answer would be from the cow if it could speak and respond to you? Do you suppose the cow would say it is murder for you to slit its throat, drain its blood, butcher it up into pieces, cook its flesh, and eat it? Or how about this: are you man enough to speak up for the cow because it cannot speak for itself and communicate the error of the ways of carnal man? Can you speak honestly and uprightly for the innocent cow or will you instead let your belly do the talking? Don't forget, your belly has a bias, it loves the taste of roasted cow flesh. If you listen to your belly the cow is doomed and according to haNavi Yeshayahu you will have blood on your hands. :chuckle:

 

[Jacob]

Even what you say is still not half the truth because it does not take into account what Messiah says about murder(s).

Matthew 15:18-19
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Do you see what that says? What comes forth from the mouth proceeds from the heart. After "evil thoughts" the next thing listed is "murders", and therefore the commandment, which is spiritual, is not only speaking of physical things; for the Master says that murders come forth from the heart. If therefore there is murder in the heart then that same murder will come forth from the mouth and reveal itself by the words a person speaks. That is likewise the background reasoning for what is also written concerning this teaching in 1John 3:15.

However I did not even go so far as to speak in such terms, but instead, I spoke of animals which are living souls. If a cow could speak and respond to you, and if you were to ask the cow whether or not it would be considered murder to slit its throat, drain its blood, butcher it up into pieces, cook its flesh, and eat it: what do you suppose the answer would be from the cow if it could speak and respond to you? Do you suppose the cow would say it is murder for you to slit its throat, drain its blood, butcher it up into pieces, cook its flesh, and eat it? Or how about this: are you man enough to speak up for the cow because it cannot speak for itself and communicate the error of the ways of carnal man? Can you speak honestly and uprightly for the innocent cow or will you instead let your belly do the talking? Don't forget, your belly has a bias, it loves the taste of roasted cow flesh. If you listen to your belly the cow is doomed and according to haNavi Yeshayahu you will have blood on your hands. :chuckle:

Shalom.

What is the chuckle for?

I understand standing against murder of the heart and expressed verbally, but is cow kosher? Can cow be ritually slaughtered for consumption according to Torah? It sounds like we need an answer here.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[daqq]

Shalom.

What is the chuckle for?

I understand standing against murder of the heart and expressed verbally, but is cow kosher? Can cow be ritually slaughtered for consumption according to Torah? It sounds like we need an answer here.

Shalom.

Jacob

Lol, I chuckled because cows and bellies do not really talk . . . or do they? As for kosher; if you do not eat the carcasses of dead animals you will still be in line with the dietary laws, right? In fact you will not even need to worry about mixing meat with milk.

Moreover the Father has made a covenant for me with the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heavens; and the battle bow is broken, and the sword and the battle in that sense are removed from my land, (Hos 2:18). And this little mini-covenant goes something like this: they provide me with milk, and cheese, and wool for durable clothing, and whatsoever is lawful; and in return I do not slit their throats, drain their blood, cook their flesh and eat them.

The earnest expectation of the creature longs for the manifestation of the sons of Elohim: for the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him who had subjected the same in hope; for the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the sons of Elohim; for we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together even still until now. For the creature knows that, when the sons of Elohim are revealed, those true sons of Elohim will no more slit their throats, drain their blood, cook their flesh and eat them: for the true sons of Elohim know that the Torah is Spirit and supernal.

Shalom.

 

[Jacob]

Lol, I chuckled because cows and bellies do not really talk . . . or do they? As for kosher; if you do not eat the carcasses of dead animals you will still be in line with the dietary laws, right? In fact you will not even need to worry about mixing meat with milk.

Moreover the Father has made a covenant for me with the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heavens; and the battle bow is broken, and the sword and the battle in that sense are removed from my land, (Hos 2:18). And this little mini-covenant goes something like this: they provide me with milk, and cheese, and wool for durable clothing, and whatsoever is lawful; and in return I do not slit their throats, drain their blood, cook their flesh and eat them.

The earnest expectation of the creature longs for the manifestation of the sons of Elohim: for the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him who had subjected the same in hope; for the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the sons of Elohim; for we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together even still until now. For the creature knows that, when the sons of Elohim are revealed, those true sons of Elohim will no more slit their throats, drain their blood, cook their flesh and eat them: for the true sons of Elohim know that the Torah is Spirit and supernal.

Shalom.

Shalom.

God will help you with your understanding if you let Him.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[daqq]

Shalom.

God will help you with your understanding if you let Him.

Shalom.

Jacob

Yes, He did, with His Word.

 

[Jacob]

Yes, He did, with His Word.

Shalom.

Was there a law of Torah that helped you?

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[daqq]

Shalom.

Was there a law of Torah that helped you?

Shalom.

Jacob

There are plenty but for me it is all understood through the interpretations given by Messiah.

Here is one example:

Deuteronomy 11:18-19
18 Therefore you shall lay up these My words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
19 And you shall teach them to your children, speaking of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.
20 And you shall write them upon the door posts of your house and upon your gates:

He says, "in your heart and in your soul", and therefore these things are intended to be internal, such as the "inside of the cup" analogy in Matthew 23:25,26. And in the doctrine of Messiah every person is likened to a house, as he says in parables, allegories, and analogies, such as in Matthew 12:43,44,45 and Mark 13:34,35,36,37. If therefore the body of the man is likened to a house then this thinking should not be left out of the above passage. It is not enough to place a mezuzah at each of the doors of your house built with hands of men and, in fact, that may be misleading if indeed the above speaks of your own body-temple as the house. The "doorposts" of your house-temple are therefore your arms-hands-deeds-actions. The lintel or header of your house is your forehead. The Torah-Word is to be within your forehead, that is, your mind. In the sense that it is "on" should be more like in the sense of "on your mind" instead of literally strapped onto your forehead, (tefillin). I am not saying do or do not do the outward but what I am saying is that the inward and supernal understanding is much more important in the now, (for Elohim does not dwell in the outer-bounds or profane-commons area of your body-temple but rather in the inner sanctuary), and the supernal understandings are found in the Testimony of Messiah in the Gospel accounts, (as well as Paul likewise teaches the commandments of the Master, and also expounds much from the Torah, despite what most of the mainstream likes to believe).

 

[Jacob]

There are plenty but for me it is all understood through the interpretations given by Messiah.

Here is one example:

Deuteronomy 11:18-19
18 Therefore you shall lay up these My words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
19 And you shall teach them to your children, speaking of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.
20 And you shall write them upon the door posts of your house and upon your gates:

He says, "in your heart and in your soul", and therefore these things are intended to be internal, such as the "inside of the cup" analogy in Matthew 23:25,26. And in the doctrine of Messiah every person is likened to a house, as he says in parables, allegories, and analogies, such as in Matthew 12:43,44,45 and Mark 13:34,35,36,37. If therefore the body of the man is likened to a house then this thinking should not be left out of the above passage. It is not enough to place a mezuzah at each of the doors of your house built with hands of men and, in fact, that may be misleading if indeed the above speaks of your own body-temple as the house. The "doorposts" of your house-temple are therefore your arms-hands-deeds-actions. The lintel or header of your house is your forehead. The Torah-Word is to be within your forehead, that is, your mind. In the sense that it is "on" should be more like in the sense of "on your mind" instead of literally strapped onto your forehead, (tefillin). I am not saying do or do not do the outward but what I am saying is that the inward and supernal understanding is much more important in the now, (for Elohim does not dwell in the outer-bounds or profane-commons area of your body-temple but rather in the inner sanctuary), and the supernal understandings are found in the Testimony of Messiah in the Gospel accounts, (as well as Paul likewise teaches the commandments of the Master, and also expounds much from the Torah, despite what most of the mainstream likes to believe).

Shalom.

You may be going in the right direction but I do not know how to know, check, or verify this.

Are you a Jew who accepts Torah or are you of Israel and do you accept Torah? I am a yes for both but I do not currently wear tefillin.

God bless you for sharing more about yourself.

Shalom.

Jacob