Shalom. The 613 Commandments of the Torah should be observed by Jews, Israel.

[Jacob]

Shalom.

The 613 Commandments of the Torah should be observed by Jews, Israel.

The New Covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts. I believe that it came in Yeshua HaMashiach, Yeshua Messiah, Jesus the Christ. The Law and the Prophets have not been abolished. Jesus taught that to be great in the kingdom of heaven one must keep and teach the Commandments.

Do you disagree that in the New Covenant we have God's law and that no commandment from before has been annulled?

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Shalom.

The 613 Commandments of the Torah should be observed by Jews, Israel.

The New Covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts. I believe that it came in Yeshua HaMashiach, Yeshua Messiah, Jesus the Christ. The Law and the Prophets have not been abolished. Jesus taught that to be great in the kingdom of heaven one must keep and teach the Commandments.

Do you disagree that in the New Covenant we have God's law and that no commandment from before has been annulled?

Shalom.

Jacob

Depends on how you observe them.

Lev 21:17 Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God.
Lev 21:18 For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,
Lev 21:19 Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,
Lev 21:20 Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;
Lev 21:21 No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.
Lev 21:22 He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy.
Lev 21:23 Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the LORD do sanctify them.

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

LA

 

[Jacob]

Depends on how you observe them.

Lev 21:17 Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God.
Lev 21:18 For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,
Lev 21:19 Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,
Lev 21:20 Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;
Lev 21:21 No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.
Lev 21:22 He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy.
Lev 21:23 Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the LORD do sanctify them.

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

LA

I do not think that you are saying getting away with not observing a commandment or commandments in some way.

 

[iouae]

The Jews should observe the 613 of the Torah.

And the Christians should observe the 1050 laws of the New Testament. If you want to know what these are, go to...
https://www.cai.org/bible-studies/1050-new-testament-commands

 

[Jacob]

The Jews should observe the 613 of the Torah.

And the Christians should observe the 1050 laws of the New Testament. If you want to know what these are, go to...
https://www.cai.org/bible-studies/1050-new-testament-commands

The New Covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

I do not know if there are New Covenant laws. There are 1050 commands in the New Testament. Matthew through Revelation are often referred to as the New Covenant or the New Testament, but the New Covenant is not the Scriptures themselves.

 

[iouae]

The New Covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

I do not know if there are New Covenant laws. There are 1050 commands in the New Testament. Matthew through Revelation are often referred to as the New Covenant or the New Testament, but the New Covenant is not the Scriptures themselves.

You said "but the New Covenant is not the Scriptures themselves."

In my Bible, they can be found, therefore they are scriptures.
And they are called a "better covenant" therefore they are better laws.
Those are the ones to focus on, since the new is an improvement on the old.

 

[Jacob]

You said "but the New Covenant is not the Scriptures themselves."

In my Bible, they can be found, therefore they are scriptures.
And they are called a "better covenant" therefore they are better laws.
Those are the ones to focus on, since the new is an improvement on the old.

The New Covenant is first spoken of in Jeremiah. It is in Jesus Christ.

 

[iouae]

The New Covenant is first spoken of in Jeremiah. It is in Jesus Christ.

I am sorry, but I don't get your point.

 

[Hawkins]

Shalom.

The 613 Commandments of the Torah should be observed by Jews, Israel.

The New Covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts. I believe that it came in Yeshua HaMashiach, Yeshua Messiah, Jesus the Christ. The Law and the Prophets have not been abolished. Jesus taught that to be great in the kingdom of heaven one must keep and teach the Commandments.

Do you disagree that in the New Covenant we have God's law and that no commandment from before has been annulled?

Shalom.

Jacob

To my knowledge, only the orthodox Jews still try to stick to the OT laws today (not that successful IMO). That's why Jesus said that the proclaiming of the Laws and Prophets ends with John the Baptists. Today, you should preach the gospel instead of proclaiming the OT laws. Though as a Jew, you may still try to observe those laws when you see fit.

 

[Jacob]

I am sorry, but I don't get your point.

Do you say either that Jeremiah is Old Covenant or that Jeremiah is in the Old Covenant?

What is the Old Covenant? What is the New Covenant? Are the Covenants Scripture?

 

[Jacob]

To my knowledge, only the orthodox Jews still try to stick to the OT laws today (not that successful IMO). That's why Jesus said that the proclaiming of the Laws and Prophets ends with John the Baptists. Today, you should preach the gospel instead of proclaiming the OT laws. Though as a Jew, you may still try to observe those laws when you see fit.

If people break them should they have been taught so that they did not break them?

 

[iouae]

Do you say either that Jeremiah is Old Covenant or that Jeremiah is in the Old Covenant?

What is the Old Covenant? What is the New Covenant? Are the Covenants Scripture?

If I lived in Jerusalem, with a temple, a farm and was a Jew living more than 2000 years ago, then I would say for sure that I lived under the Old Covenant, since that was the only game in town. So Jeremiah was under the Old Covenant. He neither was the OC, nor was he in the OC. He was like all other Jews, under the OC, subject to its laws, all 613 of them.

Now that we are spoiled for choice today with the New Covenant, I would consider it remiss knowing about the NC to neglect doing the NC in favour of the OC.

But If I were a Jew, living in Jerusalem today, and if there were a temple, I would feel obliged to bring my sacrifices and tithes to the temple, and feel obliged to do the 613 in addition to the 1050.

 

[Jacob]

If I lived in Jerusalem, with a temple, a farm and was a Jew living more than 2000 years ago, then I would say for sure that I lived under the Old Covenant, since that was the only game in town. So Jeremiah was under the Old Covenant. He neither was the OC, nor was he in the OC. He was like all other Jews, under the OC, subject to its laws, all 613 of them.

Now that we are spoiled for choice today with the New Covenant, I would consider it remiss knowing about the NC to neglect doing the NC in favour of the OC.

But If I were a Jew, living in Jerusalem today, and if there were a temple, I would feel obliged to bring my sacrifices and tithes to the temple, and feel obliged to do the 613 in addition to the 1050.

Can you start with your understanding of the Torah and the 613? The 1050 came later. I do not know how many commandments are in the TaNaKh.

You said that Jeremiah was in the Old Covenant. I do not know that. There is history, and there was not a New Covenant yet, so you may be correct. Is the Old Covenant the Torah, or something else maybe something spoken of in the Torah. I suggest that some people believe that the Old Covenant is the TaNaKh or first 39 Books of the Bible.

 

[iouae]

Can you start with your understanding of the Torah and the 613? The 1050 came later. I do not know how many commandments are in the TaNaKh.

You said that Jeremiah was in the Old Covenant. I do not know that. There is history, and there was not a New Covenant yet, so you may be correct. Is the Old Covenant the Torah, or something else maybe something spoken of in the Torah. I suggest that some people believe that the Old Covenant is the TaNaKh or first 39 Books of the Bible.

The OC was what the Israelites specifically agreed to at Mt Sinai. It included the big 10, and the other written laws of Ex20-23. They all agreed to keep these, nothing else. The rest of the OT was not written then, so, technically, it is an addition to the OC.

 

[Jacob]

The OC was what the Israelites specifically agreed to at Mt Sinai. It included the big 10, and the other written laws of Ex20-23. They all agreed to keep these, nothing else. The rest of the OT was not written then, so, technically, it is an addition to the OC.

From reading Matthew through Revelation I know that there was a reading of the Old Covenant. I believe that it was but I wonder if this was the Torah. I read, study, observe, keep, and teach the Torah. We have a Torah Portion each week.

 

[iouae]

From reading Matthew through Revelation I know that there was a reading of the Old Covenant. I believe that it was but I wonder if this was the Torah. I read, study, observe, keep, and teach the Torah. We have a Torah Portion each week.

Many folks got saved through the Torah alone. Those of the faith chapter or Heb 11 all did.
The Torah is great, and adequate.

But, for me, the NT is better. But it is built on the OT.

I am trying to understand your attitude towards the NT and its 1050. I know you are totally for the OT and its 613.

My problem with Christians who claim to keep the law, who tend to be sabbath keepers, possibly Feast and some clean and unclean law keepers (not eating pork etc.) is that although they praise keeping the OT law, in effect they keep hardly any of the laws, because so few actually can be kept without a temple, and a nation collectively keeping them together. Sabbath keepers seem to almost feel like sabbath keeping saves them, and makes them a cut above other Christians.

 

[Jacob]

Many folks got saved through the Torah alone. Those of the faith chapter or Heb 11 all did.
The Torah is great, and adequate.

But, for me, the NT is better. But it is built on the OT.

I am trying to understand your attitude towards the NT and its 1050. I know you are totally for the OT and its 613.

My problem with Christians who claim to keep the law, who tend to be sabbath keepers, possibly Feast and some clean and unclean law keepers (not eating pork etc.) is that although they praise keeping the OT law, in effect they keep hardly any of the laws, because so few actually can be kept without a temple, and a nation collectively keeping them together. Sabbath keepers seem to almost feel like sabbath keeping saves them, and makes them a cut above other Christians.

The way we speak of the 1050 is not the same as the 613.

Do you believe that any of the 613 are repeats of another commandment found in the Torah? That is my question about the 613. I believe that the 613 should be kept, and the 1050.

I am a Jew. I do observe the Sabbath. I do keep Sabbath. I observe the Holy Days. I wear tzit-tzit, etc....

 

[iouae]

The way we speak of the 1050 is not the same as the 613.

Do you believe that any of the 613 are repeats of another commandment found in the Torah? That is my question about the 613. I believe that the 613 should be kept, and the 1050.

I am a Jew. I do observe the Sabbath. I do keep Sabbath. I observe the Holy Days. I wear tzit-tzit, etc....

The 613 are taken only from the books of Moses.

If one had to try and count other commands, such as those given by David or Solomon, there would be hundreds more.

Likewise I keep the Sabbath, feasts like Passover and Sukkoth, clean and unclean food laws, but don't keep any dress code. Christians who push keeping the OT laws, in fact only keep a select few of them. I tend to keep only the things Jesus directly kept. He kept the holy days, so I keep them. He did not eat pork, so I don't eat pork. But I observe a very OT-light form of law-keeping. Any OT law Christ did not endorse or mention, I tend to ignore. He never mentioned wearing tassels or phylacteries, so I don't either.

 

[Jacob]

The 613 are taken only from the books of Moses.

If one had to try and count other commands, such as those given by David or Solomon, there would be hundreds more.

Likewise I keep the Sabbath, feasts like Passover and Sukkoth, clean and unclean food laws, but don't keep any dress code. Christians who push keeping the OT laws, in fact only keep a select few of them. I tend to keep only the things Jesus directly kept. He kept the holy days, so I keep them. He did not eat pork, so I don't eat pork. But I observe a very OT-light form of law-keeping. Any OT law Christ did not endorse or mention, I tend to ignore. He never mentioned wearing tassels or phylacteries, so I don't either.

I want to begin with what is found in the Torah. My Jewish observance can be more than that. And I believe that the New Covenant has come in Jesus Christ, Yeshua HaMashiach. I can observe the 1050 as much as the 613 of Torah, the TaNaKh, and Jewish observances beyond these.

 

[iouae]

I want to begin with what is found in the Torah. My Jewish observance can be more than that. And I believe that the New Covenant has come in Jesus Christ, Yeshua HaMashiach. I can observe the 1050 as much as the 613 of Torah, the TaNaKh, and Jewish observances beyond these.

To me, every law I keep, I regard as a bit of a distraction which is to love God and to love one's pesky fellow man. I really try to keep my religion as simple as possible with as little as possible emphasis on law and custom keeping as possible. That said, I really enjoy the Sabbaths, don't miss unclean foods etc.

I am not a big fan of Jewish customs at all. Please try and sell me on a few of these.