Romans ch 11.

[Lazy afternoon]

Proof that both believers from the Jews and the Gentiles are in the olive tree of Israel.

Paul speaking to the gentile believers--

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

The gentiles must have been in the tree in order to be able to be cut off.



Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Israel of the flesh who did not believe could be grafted in again. (they are all dead now)



Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

There it is - both in the same tree.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Until the fullness of the gentiles (nations)are grafted into the olive tree, blindness in part will exist for Israel of the flesh.


Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

All Israel will consist only of the saved.

Otherwise one must think God will save all Israel of the flesh, and the NT shows that not to be true.

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

LA

 

[beameup]

The gentiles must have been in the tree in order to be able to be cut off.
LA

Can't you read? They were grafted in to the trunk/root, which is God.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Can't you read? They were grafted in to the trunk/root, which is God.

Paul speaking to the gentile believers--

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

The gentiles who were joined to the tree by faith in Christ, must have been in the tree in order to be able to be cut off.

 

[beameup]

The "natural branches" (ie: Jews) will be grafted back into the root/trunk prior to the Great Tribulation.

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the Temple of God, displaying himself as being God. - 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

 

[Interplanner]

The "natural branches" (ie: Jews) will be grafted back into the root/trunk prior to the Great Tribulation.

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the Temple of God, displaying himself as being God. - 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

Beam,
that Thess passage is one of the earliest of the NT when Paul thought that the coming in judgement was right after the destruction of Jerusalem of 66-70. It has no bearing on whether faith, or not, is how people are in the olive tree illustration.

Jerusalem was destroyed as Christ said, in that generation, but the worldwide coming in judgement did not occur, and God had allowed for such a delay in Mt 24's 'only the Father knows.'

 

[beameup]

Beam,
that Thess passage is one of the earliest of the NT when Paul thought that the coming in judgement was right after the destruction of Jerusalem of 66-70. It has no bearing on whether faith, or not, is how people are in the olive tree illustration.

Jerusalem was destroyed as Christ said, in that generation, but the worldwide coming in judgement did not occur, and God had allowed for such a delay in Mt 24's 'only the Father knows.'

It's all written by the Holy Spirit.
The word "apostasia" literally means departure.
It certainly refers to the Harpazo, but could be a "double entendre" referring to the apostasy of Christianity following the removal of the Body of Christ from the earth.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe THE LIE (ie: False Gospel of the False Christ). 2 Thessalonians 2:11

 

[Lazy afternoon]

It's all written by the Holy Spirit.
The word "apostasia" literally means departure.
It certainly refers to the Harpazo, but could be a "double entendre" referring to the apostasy of Christianity following the removal of the Body of Christ from the earth.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe THE LIE (ie: False Gospel of the False Christ). 2 Thessalonians 2:11

Wrong on all counts, adding to the word of God.

Luk 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.


LA

 

[Interplanner]

Proof that both believers from the Jews and the Gentiles are in the olive tree of Israel.

Paul speaking to the gentile believers--

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

The gentiles must have been in the tree in order to be able to be cut off.



Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Israel of the flesh who did not believe could be grafted in again. (they are all dead now)



Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

There it is - both in the same tree.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Until the fullness of the gentiles (nations)are grafted into the olive tree, blindness in part will exist for Israel of the flesh.


Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

All Israel will consist only of the saved.

Otherwise one must think God will save all Israel of the flesh, and the NT shows that not to be true.

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

LA

Good and that's "saved" as saved is always used in Romans: justified by faith in what Christ did.

 

[beameup]

Wrong on all counts, adding to the word of God.

Luk 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
LA

So, you are comparing Sodom and Gamorrah and the Great Flood to the Destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. So, they were eating and drinking in Jerusalem and suddenly, out of nowhere, these Romans just appeared and destroyed the city. :rotfl:

Extremely lazy Biblical scholarship.

BTW, what you referenced is the DAY OF THE LORD... look it up, if you can.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

So, you are comparing Sodom and Gamorrah and the Great Flood to the Destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. So, they were eating and drinking in Jerusalem and suddenly, out of nowhere, these Romans just appeared and destroyed the city. :rotfl:

Extremely lazy Biblical scholarship.

BTW, what you referenced is the DAY OF THE LORD... look it up, if you can.

Why can you not deal with the OP of this thread?

LA

 

[Interplanner]

So, you are comparing Sodom and Gamorrah and the Great Flood to the Destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. So, they were eating and drinking in Jerusalem and suddenly, out of nowhere, these Romans just appeared and destroyed the city. :rotfl:

Extremely lazy Biblical scholarship.

BTW, what you referenced is the DAY OF THE LORD... look it up, if you can.

Just to shed some light, it is not out of the question. But there is a detail that LA may not have known. Parts of Judea were first overrun by the swarm of zealots as they organized, or rather, organized under 3 competing leaders. It is these Jesus meant when he warned about how you might be traveling on the Sabbath. Clearly that would not matter to Roman forces! It had to be Sabbath-police, ie, zealots.

We know from the analogy of the flood and from the comfortable lives of those in Jerusalem that it was Jerusalem inhabitants who were cut down by the zealot mania. The 'taken' ones were the ones who suffered loss. (Taken has nothing to do with a rapture).

Once that is understood, then yes, there may also be a sense in which the Roman clampdown was also harsh. Because it now had the zealot layer to it and there were no two parties in more hostile stances to each other.

The whole period is rightly called the Day of the Lord, and judgement was meted out on Israel as Lk 21 explained. But the worldwide judgement--that was delayed, and is part of the Day of the Lord.

 

[beameup]

Just to shed some light, it is not out of the question. But there is a detail that LA may not have known. Parts of Judea were first overrun by the swarm of zealots as they organized, or rather, organized under 3 competing leaders. It is these Jesus meant when he warned about how you might be traveling on the Sabbath. Clearly that would not matter to Roman forces! It had to be Sabbath-police, ie, zealots.

We know from the analogy of the flood and from the comfortable lives of those in Jerusalem that it was Jerusalem inhabitants who were cut down by the zealot mania. The 'taken' ones were the ones who suffered loss. (Taken has nothing to do with a rapture).

Once that is understood, then yes, there may also be a sense in which the Roman clampdown was also harsh. Because it now had the zealot layer to it and there were no two parties in more hostile stances to each other.

:blabla: :blabla: :blabla:
You obviously are showing your ignorance, as the Day of the LORD has certain characteristics that show that it has never occurred.
It didn't occur in the first century, 70 AD, or 135 AD.

 

[beameup]

Why can you not deal with the OP of this thread?

LA

It is YOU that quoted Luke 17. Don't you remember?

The "natural branches" were cut-off.
The "natural branches" will be grafted in again.
Romans 11
Following the "departure", Israel will be "grafted" back into God... then the Day of the LORD occurs, followed by the Second Coming.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

It is YOU that quoted Luke 17. Don't you remember?

The "natural branches" were cut-off.
The "natural branches" will be grafted in again.
Romans 11

You teach the word of the fallen church now joining the Pope.

The natural branches have been joining to the olive tree which the gentiles are in, since 2000 years ago.

Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Following the "departure", Israel will be "grafted" back into God... then the Day of the LORD occurs, followed by the Second Coming.

Not only the falling away is not a rapture, but is a departure from the faith,

but the day of the Lord occurs immediately upon the second coming and resurrection--

2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
2Th 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

You and people like Musterion actually believe the fallen doctrines of the Kundalini churches who he condemns.

You are the same, part of the fallen churches--

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

LA

 

[beameup]

You teach the word of the fallen church now joining the Pope.
LA

U R really
You don't even know the difference between "Replacement Theology" and "Dispensationalism". :rotfl:
You disserve the :dunce: award of the month.

SUBJECT: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him

That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the Day of Christ is at hand. [second subject]

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come the apostasy first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition - 2 Thess 2:1-3

 

[Lazy afternoon]

U R really
You don't even know the difference between "Replacement Theology" and "Dispensationalism". :rotfl:
You disserve the :dunce: award of the month.

SUBJECT: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him

That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the Day of Christ is at hand. [second subject]

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come the apostasy first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition - 2 Thess 2:1-3

2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
2Th 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.



Still unable to deal with the OP I see.

When the fullness of the gentiles comes into the Kingdom of Israel, then all unbelievers will be no more and elect Israel of all ages will be saved.

All unbelievers of all nations will be no more.

LA

 

[Nang]

2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
2Th 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.



Still unable to deal with the OP I see.

When the fullness of the gentiles comes into the Kingdom of Israel, then all unbelievers will be no more and elect Israel of all ages will be saved.

All unbelievers of all nations will be no more.

LA

Revelation 22:14-16