Robb Elementary School shooting

marke

Well-known member
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
~Benjamin Franklin


"Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin"
~THE ALMIGHTY
When a nation degenerates into sin and immorality the laws governing the people are increased.

Proverbs 28:2
For the transgression of a land many are the princes thereof: but by a man of understanding and knowledge the state thereof shall be prolonged.
 

ffreeloader

Well-known member
A brutal way to handle this, but it would get results. These mass murderers are scum of the Earth. But it might deter them if our policy is to brutally punish their surviving family. It would work, but it would be immoral and evil.

Sound familiar?
Injustice, like murder, is never solved by further injustice. It exacerbates the problem. Slavery was not cured by enslaving others. Read Ezekiel 18. Only those who who are responsible are held accountable. What you are advocating is no different than God holding Adam accountable for the murder of Abel. It's not only useless in solving injustice it is evil.
 

ffreeloader

Well-known member
Only one in ten thousand guns are ever used to commit a crime in America. If lefties manage to get guns outlawed like guns are outlawed in China or North Korea, then one in every ten guns remaining will likely be used in a crime and the crime rate will go up as it did in Russia when the population there was disarmed.
You just demonstrated very clearly that two wrongs never equal one right.
 

Idolater

"Never believe anyone who is not cross-examined."
Injustice, like murder, is never solved by further injustice. It exacerbates the problem. Slavery was not cured by enslaving others. Read Ezekiel 18. Only those who who are responsible are held accountable. What you are advocating is no different than God holding Adam accountable for the murder of Abel. It's not only useless in solving injustice it is evil.
I'm talking about an immoral but likely effective policy, where whenever there are Kamikaze mass murders (like the OP), the mass murderer's family is subsequently punished. Innocent people (just like the mass murderer's victims) would be put in jeopardy with this policy, but it might be just the right innocent people that would deter these scum of the Earth mass murderers. You make an imaginary scale or balance. Today, when the mass murderers consider their crime, the scale has his murderous desire on one side, and the lives of unimportant people on the other. No contest, his desires outweigh these innocent people.

Now put their family on one side of that scale, with this immoral policy I'm not seriously entertaining. Now that stops some of these Kamikaze mass murderers. They weigh their bloodlust against their family. Is it going to stop all of em? no. Some? Many? Yes.

But it's still an immoral policy. So even though it's possible to argue that it would probably work, it's still off the table because it's immoral.

Like gun control.
 

PureX

Well-known member
Only one in ten thousand guns are ever used to commit a crime in America. If lefties manage to get guns outlawed like guns are outlawed in China or North Korea, then one in every ten guns remaining will likely be used in a crime and the crime rate will go up as it did in Russia when the population there was disarmed.
It's never been about outlawing guns. That's just the BS the gun lobby and the NRA tells the idiots to keep them all riled up and "agin it!" What it's about is putting regulatory measures in place to keep those who are unlikely to be able to have and use guns responsibly from getting them. It's not rocket science. We do the same thing for all kinds of dangerous mechanisms and machinery.
 

TomO

Get used to it.
Hall of Fame
It's never been about outlawing guns. That's just the BS the gun lobby and the NRA tells the idiots to keep them all riled up and "agin it!" What it's about is putting regulatory measures in place to keep those who are unlikely to be able to have and use guns responsibly from getting them. It's not rocket science. We do the same thing for all kinds of dangerous mechanisms and machinery.
:poop:
 

marke

Well-known member
It's never been about outlawing guns. That's just the BS the gun lobby and the NRA tells the idiots to keep them all riled up and "agin it!" What it's about is putting regulatory measures in place to keep those who are unlikely to be able to have and use guns responsibly from getting them. It's not rocket science. We do the same thing for all kinds of dangerous mechanisms and machinery.
We already have those kinds of gun laws that obviously don't work given the fervor with which leftists want to do something else.
 

PureX

Well-known member
We already have those kinds of gun laws ...
Clearly, we do not. Because obviously irresponsible people are buying guns every day and then killing people with them. The guy in Texas was an obviously dangerous nut-job, and everyone around him knew it. The guy in New York, likewise. But we have no actual mechanisms in place to discover this when people want to buy guns. We need to license the ownership and use of firearms so we can put in place mechanisms that will help us to uncover these people, and stop them from being able to get hold of guns.

But of course the NRA will fight ANY real regulation tooth and nail, because all they really care about is selling more guns. So they want anyone and everyone to be able to buy them and damn the consequences.
that obviously don't work given the fervor with which leftists want to do something else.
All we have are idiotic, willy-nilly fake regulations that even when enforce, and they are not enforced most of the time, do little to nothing to actually keep deadly weapons away from the people that are most likely to commit murder with them. We regulate the ownership and use of automobiles FAR more carefully and stringently than we regulate deliberately designed killing machines.
 

ffreeloader

Well-known member
Clearly, we do not. Because obviously irresponsible people are buying guns every day and then killing people with them. The guy in Texas was an obviously dangerous nut-job, and everyone around him knew it. The guy in New York, likewise. But we have no actual mechanisms in place to discover this when people want to buy guns. We need to license the ownership and use of firearms so we can put in place mechanisms that will help us to uncover these people, and stop them from being able to get hold of guns.

But of course the NRA will fight ANY real regulation tooth and nail, because all they really care about is selling more guns. So they want anyone and everyone to be able to buy them and damn the consequences.

All we have are idiotic, willy-nilly fake regulations that even when enforce, and they are not enforced most of the time, do little to nothing to actually keep deadly weapons away from the people that are most likely to commit murder with them. We regulate the ownership and use of automobiles FAR more carefully and stringently than we regulate deliberately designed killing machines.
It's too bad our founding fathers made gun ownership legal for reasons you completely ignore. The second amendment is to guaranty that government has a healthy fear of the people rising up and overthrowing it when it attempts to become authoritarian because that is the tendency of all governments over time. They accumulate power over time.
 

Idolater

"Never believe anyone who is not cross-examined."
It's too bad our founding fathers made gun ownership legal for reasons you completely ignore. The second amendment is to guaranty that government has a healthy fear of the people rising up and overthrowing it when it attempts to become authoritarian because that is the tendency of all governments over time. They accumulate power over time.
It also wouldn't have hurt Ukraine to have as liberal a gun policy as Americans do before the Russians showed up. I'd imagine there are at least dozens of Ukrainians right now who would go back in time if they could, and adopt something like our Second Amendment if they knew what was coming.
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
We need to license the ownership and use of firearms so we can put in place mechanisms that will help us to uncover these people, and stop them from being able to get hold of guns.

This sounds lovely, but would require state intrusiveness and snitching to be the bedrocks of your society for such policies to be even mildly effective.

You have not thought through the consequences of you policy ideas.

We regulate the ownership and use of automobiles FAR more carefully and stringently than we regulate deliberately designed killing machines.
Therefore, something.

Perhaps you think that the extreme traffic regulations such as exist in most Western nations prevent fatalities? We know that you would not be able to test that assertion against the ideal of liberty.

What you want is your restrictions implemented. What you're unwilling to consider is that doing so requires the subjugation of individual wills. And the best arguments you have to convince people to bow to your agenda are emotionalism.
 

ffreeloader

Well-known member
It also wouldn't have hurt Ukraine to have as liberal a gun policy as Americans do before the Russians showed up. I'd imagine there are at least dozens of Ukrainians right now who would go back in time if they could, and adopt something like our Second Amendment if they knew what was coming.
Yeah, they could have overthrown their Nazi government decades ago.
 
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