Question re: Adultery/Criminal justice...

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2MuchCoffeeMan

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First, I don't have a bible handy to confirm what I'm thinking right now and my phone is down at home (where my bibles are) so that I can ask this question from there. I'm at work you see, but don't worry. I'm on my coffee break :coffee: :D

Okay, if I recall correctly what Christ said concerning divorce in the book of Matthew (?), then fornication is the only sufficient cause for divorce. Firstly, am I right about that?
So, assuming a) that this is true and b) adultery is a death penalty crime then how is divorce even possible? I'm obviously missing something here.
Can anyone illuminate my ignorance?
 
Turbo

Turbo

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During Christ's earthly ministry, Israel was under Roman occupation and did not have the authority to execute criminals. I think their situation is very applicable to America today, since adultery has been de-criminalized.
 
Freak

Freak

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Originally posted by Turbo
During Christ's earthly ministry, Israel was under Roman occupation and did not have the authority to execute criminals. I think their situation is very applicable to America today, since adultery has been de-criminalized.
Click to expand...
:crackup: Watch Turbo run.
 
Freak

Freak

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Originally posted by Turbo
During Christ's earthly ministry, Israel was under Roman occupation and did not have the authority to execute criminals.
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But Christ did, right? But He didn't

Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."
The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."
Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

Jesus didn't call for the death penalty.
 
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2MuchCoffeeMan

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So, a biblical system of criminal justice were in effect, including capitol punishment for adultery...
...what, if any, grounds would justify divorce?
Or, rather, how can you seek a divorce of adultery under a system of law where adultery is punishable by death? Assuming, of course, you want a divorce and not the execution of your unfaithful spouse.

You: Judge I want a divorce.
Judge: On what grounds?
You: Uh...er...

So, what am I missing here?
 
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Freak

Freak

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Originally posted by 2MuchCoffeeMan
So, a biblical system of criminal justice were in effect, including capitol punishment for adultery...
...what, if any, grounds would justify divorce?
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:chuckle: This why the death penalty fails and is built on shaky ground!. :down:

Turbo!!!!! I'd like to see an answer.
 
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2MuchCoffeeMan

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All I can think of is either a) the death penalty isn't necessarily the only penalty for adultery or b) "marital unfaithfulness" refers to something more than simple adultery.
I'm pretty sure capitol punishment for adultery is established cleary. Can anyone correct/confirm me on this?
I suppose "marital unfaithfulness" could mean more than simply adultery. Withholding "marital favors" perhaps?
 
Freak

Freak

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Originally posted by 2MuchCoffeeMan
So, a biblical system of criminal justice were in effect, including capitol punishment for adultery...
...what, if any, grounds would justify divorce?
Or, rather, how can you seek a divorce of adultery under a system of law where adultery is punishable by death? Assuming, of course, you want a divorce and not the execution of your unfaithful spouse.

You: Judge I want a divorce.
Judge: On what grounds?
You: Uh...er...

So, what am I missing here?
Click to expand...
:crackup: :crackup:
 
Freak

Freak

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Originally posted by 2MuchCoffeeMan
:rolleyes: Hmm. Not very constructive Freak. But at least I made you laugh. :p
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I'm laughing because the madness of the death penalty. Your questions further my belief that the death penalty is another Old Covenant Law that brought endless confusion.
 
Gerald

Gerald

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Originally posted by 2MuchCoffeeMan
I suppose "marital unfaithfulness" could mean more than simply adultery. Withholding "marital favors" perhaps?
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Getting a divorce over hurt feelings.

How weak, to seek divorce on those grounds. :down:
 
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2MuchCoffeeMan

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Well, divorce is a funny thing. I can't say there really is a good reason for one. No way, that is, to get a divorce and claim any measure of innocence in the matter.
In light of that, I would think that withholding sex as good a reason for divorce as any other.
 
LightSon

LightSon

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Originally posted by Freak
I'm laughing because the madness of the death penalty. Your questions further my belief that the death penalty is another Old Covenant Law that brought endless confusion.
Click to expand...

Hi Freak,
Did God establish the OT death penalty?
If no, you are challenging the inspiration (or record) of scripture.
If yes, then God was the author of confusion.

If you don't like either of these conclusions, then perhaps your premise is wrong. Help me to understand.
 
Freak

Freak

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Originally posted by LightSon
Hi Freak,
Did God establish the OT death penalty?
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Yes.

If yes, then God was the author of confusion.
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When we attempt to bring Old Covenant Laws under the New Covenant it brings confusion. You wouldn't want us to offer animal sacrifices anymore under the New Covenant now would you?
 
LightSon

LightSon

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Originally posted by Freak
Yes.

When we attempt to bring Old Covenant Laws under the New Covenant it brings confusion.
Click to expand...

RATS. I thought I had you. Good recovery. :cool:

Originally posted by Freak
You wouldn't want us to offer animal sacrifices anymore under the New Covenant now would you?
Click to expand...

No way!
 
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2MuchCoffeeMan

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Originally posted by Freak
I'm laughing because the madness of the death penalty. Your questions further my belief that the death penalty is another Old Covenant Law that brought endless confusion.
Click to expand...

I'm under the impression that you are a christian. Am I right on this?
If so, I think we can both agree that the Mosaic law is a terribly bad method of achieving righteousness. Consider Israel's history with it.
But, as a earthly system of restraining criminal behavior...that's a slightly different consideration. And that's the debate.
I think where you and I would disagree would be whether or not God intended it to also be an effective method of criminal justice. If so, then we can take it verbatim, sans symbolic laws, apply it and reasonably expect it to outperform anything man has been able to come up with. If not, then we can reasonable assume that the lesson intended to teach (that the law does not lead to righteousness) would make the Mosaic law's usefulness in criminal justice suspect.

What do you think?
 
Gerald

Gerald

Resident Fiend
Originally posted by 2MuchCoffeeMan
Well, divorce is a funny thing. I can't say there really is a good reason for one. No way, that is, to get a divorce and claim any measure of innocence in the matter.
In light of that, I would think that withholding sex as good a reason for divorce as any other.
Click to expand...
What about this: you want children (that is, you want your genes to make it to the next generation, you don't want to adopt), and discover that your spouse is infertile.

Such a couple could present a reasonable case for dissolving their union...
 
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