Proverb 8 and John 1

Jacob

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It is wisdom that was there. John 1 says the Word was with God and the Word was God. The word was with God and the word was God. Is this that the Word or word if either is or was Jesus was or is not wisdom? How do we read Proverb 8? It came before John 1. Today a link did not work correctly and sent me to John 1, but reading Proverb 8 again for who it was talking about (result) is wisdom. But I do not have a Greek idea of wisdom or logos word.

Shalom.

Jacob
 

daqq

Well-known member
It is wisdom that was there. John 1 says the Word was with God and the Word was God. The word was with God and the word was God. Is this that the Word or word if either is or was Jesus was or is not wisdom? How do we read Proverb 8? It came before John 1. Today a link did not work correctly and sent me to John 1, but reading Proverb 8 again for who it was talking about (result) is wisdom. But I do not have a Greek idea of wisdom or logos word.

Shalom.

Jacob

Who has ascended and descended the heavens? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His Name? What is the name of His Son if you can tell? The whole Memra of Eloahh is refined, He is a magen to them that put their trust in Him, (Pro 30:4-5, Gen 15:1), and no one has ascended into the heavens if not the one from the heavens has descended: the Son of Man, (Gen 1:26-28, Psa 8:4-8, Jhn 3:13, 1Cor 15:47), who descends in bodily form as a Yonah-Dove, (Luk 3:22). Unto you, O men, I call: and my voice is unto the sons of Adam. O you simple ones, understand wisdom: and you foolish ones, be of an understanding heart. Hear, for I will speak of excellent things, and the opening of my lips shall be of straight things of rectitude: for my mouth shall speak truth, and wickedness is an abomination to my lips. All the Imri of my mouth are in tzedek-righteousness: there is nothing twisted or distorted in them, (Pro 8:4-8). Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding, I have strength. By me kings reign and princes decree justice: by me princes and nobles rule, even all the judges of the earth. I love them that love me, and those that seek me early shall find me: riches and honor are with me, yea, durable riches, and righteousness. My fruit is better than gold, better than the finest gold, and my revenue is better than silver. I lead in the Way of Righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment, that I may cause those that love me to inherit substance: and I will fill their treasures. The Most High possessed me in the beginning of His Way, even before His works of old: I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths I was brought forth: when there were no fountains abounding with water, before the mountains were settled, and before the hills, I was brought forth. While as yet He had not made the land, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the earth: when He prepared the heavens, I was there. When He set a compass upon the face of the depth, when He established the clouds above, when He strengthened the fountains of the deep, when He gave to the sea His decree that the waters should not pass His commandment, when He appointed the foundations of the earth: even then was I beside Him, as if one having been brought up with Him. And I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him, rejoicing in the habitable portion of His Land: and my delights were with the sons of Adam, (Pro 8:14-31).

If you can understand this it may be one of the most important things you will ever understand:

John 1:1
1 εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος
1a In Arche was the Logos(Memra), and the Logos(Memra) was with-among the Elohim, and the Logos(Memra) was Elohim.
1b The Logos(Memra) was in Arche, and the Logos(Memra) was with-among the Elohim, and the Logos(Memra) was Elohim.

Genesis 1:1-2
1 In Rshiyth-Arche Elohim cut down the Shamayim and the Eretz:
2 And the Eretz was wasted, and empty, and dark upon the face of the abyss: and Ruach Elohim brooded
[like a dove] over the face of the waters.

The phrase "Ruach Elohim" from Gen 1:2 is also rendered anarthrous in the Septuagint, (without a definite article), as "πνευμα θεου", which is a clue because in Hebrew, without having an article attached, "Ruach Elohim" may be understood as a proper noun, that is, a name. The same form which is found in the Septuagint LXX version of Gen 1:2 is very rare in the Greek New Testament, and is only found in three places, Matthew 3:16, (W/H text but not in the T/R), Romans 8:9, and 1Cor 7:40, (and the contexts inform the reader as to WHO and what this phrase concerns).
 
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Jacob

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Who has ascended and descended the heavens? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His Name? What is the name of His Son if you can tell? The whole Memra of Eloahh is refined, He is a magen to them that put their trust in Him, (Pro 30:4-5, Gen 15:1), and no one has ascended into the heavens if not the one from the heavens has descended: the Son of Man, (Gen 1:26-28, Psa 8:4-8, Jhn 3:13, 1Cor 15:47), who descends in bodily form as a Yonah-Dove, (Luk 3:22). Unto you, O men, I call: and my voice is unto the sons of Adam. O you simple ones, understand wisdom: and you foolish ones, be of an understanding heart. Hear, for I will speak of excellent things, and the opening of my lips shall be of straight things of rectitude: for my mouth shall speak truth, and wickedness is an abomination to my lips. All the Imri of my mouth are in tzedek-righteousness: there is nothing twisted or distorted in them, (Pro 8:4-8). Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding, I have strength. By me kings reign and princes decree justice: by me princes and nobles rule, even all the judges of the earth. I love them that love me, and those that seek me early shall find me: riches and honor are with me, yea, durable riches, and righteousness. My fruit is better than gold, better than the finest gold, and my revenue is better than silver. I lead in the Way of Righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment, that I may cause those that love me to inherit substance: and I will fill their treasures. The Most High possessed me in the beginning of His Way, even before His works of old: I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths I was brought forth: when there were no fountains abounding with water, before the mountains were settled, and before the hills, I was brought forth. While as yet He had not made the land, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the earth: when He prepared the heavens, I was there. When He set a compass upon the face of the depth, when He established the clouds above, when He strengthened the fountains of the deep, when He gave to the sea His decree that the waters should not pass His commandment, when He appointed the foundations of the earth: even then was I beside Him, as if one having been brought up with Him. And I was daily His delight, rejoicing always before Him, rejoicing in the habitable portion of His Land: and my delights were with the sons of Adam, (Pro 8:14-31).

If you can understand this it may be one of the most important things you will ever understand:

John 1:1
1 εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος
1a In Arche was the Logos(Memra), and the Logos(Memra) was with-among the Elohim, and the Logos(Memra) was Elohim.
1b The Logos(Memra) was in Arche, and the Logos(Memra) was with-among the Elohim, and the Logos(Memra) was Elohim.

Genesis 1:1-2
1 In Rshiyth-Arche Elohim cut down the Shamayim and the Eretz:
2 And the Eretz was wasted, and empty, and dark upon the face of the abyss: and Ruach Elohim brooded
[like a dove] over the face of the waters.

The phrase "Ruach Elohim" from Gen 1:2 is also rendered anarthrous in the Septuagint, (without a definite article), as "πνευμα θεου", which is a clue because in Hebrew, without having an article attached, "Ruach Elohim" may be understood as a proper noun, that is, a name. The same form which is found in the Septuagint LXX version of Gen 1:2 is very rare in the Greek New Testament, and is only found in three places, Matthew 3:16, (W/H text but not in the T/R), Romans 8:9, and 1Cor 7:40, (and the contexts inform the reader as to WHO and what this phrase concerns).

It may be that what I am reading from you is not all correct according to the way that God would have me to understand His word.
 

daqq

Well-known member
I do not know.

What do you suppose the Master means in the following statement?

Matthew 23:37 (cf. Luke 13:34)
37 Yerushalem, Yerushalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her: how many times I would have gathered your offspring together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not:


Do you suppose he speaks as a chicken or a dove herein? :chuckle:
More importantly: WHO is speaking herein above . . . :)
 

Jacob

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What do you suppose the Master means in the following statement?

Matthew 23:37 (cf. Luke 13:34)
37 Yerushalem, Yerushalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her: how many times I would have gathered your offspring together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not:


Do you suppose he speaks as a chicken or a dove herein? :chuckle:
More importantly: WHO is speaking herein above . . . :)

I do not know you. Did you come up with this?
 

daqq

Well-known member
I do not know you. Did you come up with this?

I do not know you either but this is an open internet forum: you do not need to know me to answer a question, for if you do, then we may as well all stop posting here and let the forum die or leave it to the few who may actually know each other. Moreover, since you did not answer my question, why should I answer your new question seeing that I also do not know you?

:wave2:
 

Jacob

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I do not know you either but this is an open internet forum: you do not need to know me to answer a question, for if you do, then we may as well all stop posting here and let the forum die or leave it to the few who may actually know each other. Moreover, since you did not answer my question, why should I answer your new question seeing that I also do not know you?

:wave2:

If I do not answer a question because I do not know you, that does not make sense. If I know something that is not on the internet should I post it if we are talking about posting on an open internet forum?

Shalom.

Jacob
 

daqq

Well-known member
If I do not answer a question because I do not know you, that does not make sense. If I know something that is not on the internet should I post it if we are talking about posting on an open internet forum?

Shalom.

Jacob

Huh??? You said "I do not know you" and the only way I can really take what you said is the way in which I did. Therefore I responded the way in which I did. I am not the one who made the statement which I quoted from Matthew 23:37 and Luke 13:34, so, no, I did not "come up" with it. It says what it says, like it or lump it: believe it or do not believe it, simple as that. I enjoy discussing the scriptures: if you do not then I suppose I understand, although I do not therefore understand why you are even here; unless of course you are just here to preach at people and not respond to any questions. In that case your saying, "I do not know you", is nothing more than a poor excuse for not wanting to understand any other viewpoint outside your own.
 

Jacob

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Huh??? You said "I do not know you" and the only way I can really take what you said is the way in which I did. Therefore I responded the way in which I did. I am not the one who made the statement which I quoted from Matthew 23:37 and Luke 13:34, so, no, I did not "come up" with it. It says what it says, like it or lump it: believe it or do not believe it, simple as that. I enjoy discussing the scriptures: if you do not then I suppose I understand, although I do not therefore understand why you are even here; unless of course you are just here to preach at people and not respond to any questions. In that case your saying, "I do not know you", is nothing more than a poor excuse for not wanting to understand any other viewpoint outside your own.

You are incorrect. This was already covered when I was a child. I do not believe the way that you do.
 

daqq

Well-known member
You are incorrect. This was already covered when I was a child. I do not believe the way that you do.

Wow, you certainly told me, and you certainly know how to drive people away from your threads: enjoy, bask in the glorious light of your victory, (lol), I wouldn't want to take away your bliss. I know you not, worker of torahlessness.
 

Jacob

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Wow, you certainly told me, and you certainly know how to drive people away from your threads: enjoy, bask in the glorious light of your victory, (lol), I wouldn't want to take away your bliss. I know you not, worker of torahlessness.

No. I am not Messianic. And I do not know about the Hebrew Roots Movement. I am Jewish. A Jew. Of Israel. I belong to Israel. I am a proselyte and a convert. To Israel and Judaism. I read study observe keep and teach the Torah. I am Torah observant. Yeshua instructed us to keep and teach the commandments (to be called great in the kingdom of heaven). The New Covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts. I love God's Law. It is my study all the day. I do not know what you think that I told you, why you think of a glorious light of victory, nor bliss. What you mean by torahlessness I do not know. If you refer to God as Ruach or Ruach Chodesh or Elohiym or Elohim that is different from saying God or speaking of God by His name, Yahveh, or HaShem (The Name), or Adonai (Lord). I do not frequent Messianic Congregations. I attend a Congregation here in Tacoma each Shabbat.

Shalom.

Jacob
 
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