philosophizer
New member
Thank you, BChristianK, for so wonderfully responding to PureX. Awesome! :first:
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Originally posted by BChristianK
PureX
Christ didn’t come to present a prize option like showcase on The Price is Right. He came to offer those who would accept it reconciliation with God.
Either you accept it, or you don’t. Its up to you.
Regarding Christian Charity you said:
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Yes, many do. But I have noticed that very often their generosity comes with a darker side - with the strings of control and manipulation, and even with hatred should the recipient of their generosity dare to refuse their ridiculous fears and superstitions along with their help.
What strings of control and manipulation are those? Requesting the chance to explain why they are willing to feed the poor and cloth the hungry?
You want your cake and eat it to. You want the Christians to kindly feed the poor as their Savior admonished but to please kindly shut up about their Savior while they feed the poor.
You said:
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Gifts given with threats and manipulation aren't really gifts at all. Love that seeks to initiate the beloved isn't really love, either. Christians who claim they love their fellow men and then want to oppress and abuse them are lying.
What exactly is it you are defining as abuse and oppression?
And what threats do you think we make?
All they request is the chance to share their faith with the person they are feeding. Nothing more, nothing less.
One is not converted by the sword when they enter a rescue mission. They are fed and clothed and told that they are fed and clothed in the Name of Christ.
If you call that oppression then you have a very active imagination.
I said:quote:
Originally posted by BChristianK You’ve been told multiple times that this isn’t what Christians believe. You’ve been told multiple times that we don’t claim to be any more righteous, good or moral than anyone else.
You replied:quote:
And yet the evidence of their behavior time and time again defies what I have been told. Maybe it's YOU who can't see, huh?
Who appointed you the sole arbiter and judge of behavior? You should be looking at yourself.
No one is saying that Christians are perfect people. But your continual caricature of Christianity as evil is getting old.
You first say that you wish they would feed and cloth the poor.
I show you that they do, then you criticize their methods.
Let me ask you a question, how many rescue missions have been started in the name of relativism?
How many have you ever served in?
What is your response to the poor, the hungry, the needy?
If you think yourself the judge of Christians then you had better make sure the measure you judge yourself is at least as stringent as the measure with which you judge them.
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And yet we have Christians who think it's OK to imprison and kill homosexuals.
And Christians who minister to emotionally confused homosexuals who struggle with that sin and who are endeavoring to get out. Christians who commit to love them as Christ loved them and lead them into freedom.
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We have Christian who think only they will go to heaven, and everyone else will burn in hell, and are quite happy about this.
And Christians who tell the truth while the rest of the world is happy to live in a lie, that God will be impressed at our pathetic attempts at “being a good person.” Christians simply tell the truth that we have all fallen short of God’s glory, and we all need to take refuge in God’s mercy, and that that mercy has a Name. We remind a sleepy world that we will be held accountable for what we choose to believe and who we choose to believe in while we have the change on earth to do so.
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We have Christians trying to manipulate our political system to create a religious autocracy,
And you who want to manipulate the political system to make sure that the state is normatively atheist….quote:
and to deny free will to anyone who dares to reject their religion.
And you who want to make all politicians promise that their faith will not affect their policy decisions, creating in affect, an atheist autocracy.
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We have Christians manipulating the legal system so as to force their own moral agendas onto everyone else.
And Atheists manipulating the legal system to force children to cut any references to God out of public schools.
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Why do you think all these Christians are doing all these things?
Why do you do the things you do?
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Do you think they're doing it out of their humility?
A great deal of them, yes. The guy I know from the rescue mission downtown makes barely enough to buy his daughter shoes. His parents think he is wasting his talent and his life. He invites the same people into the mission night after night. Most of them, the same ones, reject the gospel night after night. He still lets them in the next night, hoping that this night, they will eat the food he has worked to make sure they have every night and the only thing he asks for is one more chance to change their life.
Do you think he does it out of humility?
The person I know in the homosexual recovery ministry faces opposition at every end. The Gay rights activists hate her for her stand that homosexual behavior is a sin, the radical right Christians chastise her for her tolerance of homosexuality. I imagine she goes home many nights, wondering how she can pay her bills, and praying for God to give her the strength to get up tomorrow and do what she was called to do only from the desire to serve God.
Does she do it from humility?
A pastor friend of mine lives basically below the poverty line. He is pastoring a church in a rural area where the folks who attend his church are very old and have barely enough to feed and cloth themselves. He works during the day substituting at schools where he can find work and spends the rest of the time making hospital visits to those who are dying, and comforting grieving widows and widowers after doing their spouses funeral.
Do you think he does it out of humility?
What else do you think they are doing it from? Notoriety, financial gain, because they are all part of some plot to take over the world?
Get a clue!
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Do you think they're doing it because they respect the rights and freedoms of other people, especially those who disagree with them?
ABSOLUTELY!!!
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Do you think they're doing it because they understand that they are sinners, too, and that they are just as likely to be wrong as anyone else is?
Yes, and yet in spite of their likelihood of being wrong God reached into their lives and showed them truth.
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Or do you think that they think they know better than everyone else what "God wants", and so they have the divine right and obligation to force "God's will" on everyone else whether they like it or not?
Yeah, because caring for emotionally hurting people, grieving with widows and feeding the poor are exactly the images that pop into my head when I think of someone forcing God’s will on everyone else.
Here is hint: God’s will doesn’t need to be forced on anyone else. God’s will is going to be accomplished; he doesn’t need us to force it.
He needs us to explain it, and to let people know that they have a choice as to where they stand in relation to God’s inevitable will.
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You don't have a clue what will happen when we die. Can you admit this?
I believe what the Lord says will happen, will happen.
You can choose to believe it or not. It’s up to you.
Grace and Peace