Paul is MISUNDERSTOOD!

God's Truth

New member
People misunderstand Paul. They think when he says not of by works they think he is saying not of by obeying, or not of by obedience.

The not of by works Paul is speaking of is not of by the purification/ceremonial works, like circumcision.

Just look at the scriptures, the scriptures said, at the time of Abraham, there would be a time we would be saved by faith and not by the work of CIRCUMCISION.

Circumcision was a sign of works, the works we no longer have to do.

We still as always have to obey God, we just do not have to get circumcised in the flesh anymore.
 

daqq

Well-known member
People misunderstand Paul. They think when he says not of by works they think he is saying not of by obeying, or not of by obedience.

The not of by works Paul is speaking of is not of by the purification/ceremonial works, like circumcision.

Just look at the scriptures, the scriptures said, at the time of Abraham, there would be a time we would be saved by faith and not by the work of CIRCUMCISION.

Circumcision was a sign of works, the works we no longer have to do.

We still as always have to obey God, we just do not have to get circumcised in the flesh anymore.

Amen, good post, but even circumcision is still necessary because in the supernal way it concerns circumcision of the heart; and Messiah has become or "has been made Minister of the circumcision", (for the truth of God), as Paul himself says:

Romans 15:7-9 ASV
7 Wherefore receive ye one another, even as Christ also received you, to the glory of God.
8 For I say that Christ hath been made a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, that he might confirm the promises given unto the fathers,
9 and that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, Therefore will I give praise unto thee among the Gentiles, And sing unto thy name.


I perceive "Minister of the circumcision" in much the same way that I perceive Messiah to be "Mediator of the new testament", (Heb 9:15), and "Mediator of the new covenant", (Heb 12:24). And, yes, I also agree that when Paul speaks of "the works of the law" in the bad sense he is speaking of the physical outward things for which physical circumcision is the primary outward sign in the flesh. The flesh profits nothing.
 

God's Truth

New member
Amen, good post, but even circumcision is still necessary because in the supernal way it concerns circumcision of the heart; and Messiah has become or "has been made Minister of the circumcision", (for the truth of God), as Paul himself says:

Romans 15:7-9 ASV
7 Wherefore receive ye one another, even as Christ also received you, to the glory of God.
8 For I say that Christ hath been made a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, that he might confirm the promises given unto the fathers,
9 and that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, Therefore will I give praise unto thee among the Gentiles, And sing unto thy name.


I perceive "Minister of the circumcision" in much the same way that I perceive Messiah to be "Mediator of the new testament", (Heb 9:15), and "Mediator of the new covenant", (Heb 12:24). And, yes, I also agree that when Paul speaks of "the works of the law" in the bad sense he is speaking of the physical outward things for which physical circumcision is the primary outward sign in the flesh. The flesh profits nothing.

Amen, amen for saying good post; except, circumcision of the flesh is no longer necessary. Circumcision of the flesh was about a sign, a seal---now the Holy Spirit is our sign and seal.
 

God's Truth

New member
Romans 4:11 (KJV)

Abraham was considered righteous because he had living faith that is faith with obedience. Circumcision in the flesh was an outward sign. God promised a time in the future when circumcision would not be required. God never said there would be a time when obedience would no longer be required.
 

Right Divider

Body part
People misunderstand Paul. They think when he says not of by works they think he is saying not of by obeying, or not of by obedience.

The not of by works Paul is speaking of is not of by the purification/ceremonial works, like circumcision.

Just look at the scriptures, the scriptures said, at the time of Abraham, there would be a time we would be saved by faith and not by the work of CIRCUMCISION.

Circumcision was a sign of works, the works we no longer have to do.

We still as always have to obey God, we just do not have to get circumcised in the flesh anymore.
Eternal life is a GIFT. I guess that you will never receive it.
 

God's Truth

New member
Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant:

Circumcision is of the heart and remains absolutely necessary.

Oh that is so good to hear. I thought you were saying we should still be circumcised in the flesh to prove we are circumcised in the heart.
 

God's Truth

New member
Eternal life is a GIFT. I guess that you will never receive it.

Jesus gives the gift to those he wants to give it, and he gives the gift to those who please him.

John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Oh that is so good to hear. I thought you were saying we should still be circumcised in the flesh to prove we are circumcised in the heart.

Now you got it! :)

But see now you can run around saying, "You must be circumcised!", and those who do not walk according to the Spirit will likely go into violent convulsions and start calling you all sorts of vile names and epitaphs, (and if they already do anyways then who cares?). And when they do I just chuckle, (and that usually causes even worse convulsions with accusations of "fallen from grace" and "mocking God"). :chuckle:
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Eternal life is a GIFT. I guess that you will never receive it.

GT has her own way of thinking and can't go beyond that. She has made herself UNTEACHABLE when it comes to the truths of Paul's Gospel. Paul calls it his Gospel, for he received it from the "Ascended Lord Jesus Christ." Most people have rejected this "True Gospel" and insist on trying to EARN eternal life/Salvation on their own. Both GT and Meshak would rather try and EARN it than RECEIVE it freely from God. That's their right according to their free-will choice.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Jesus gives the gift to those he wants to give it, and he gives the gift to those who please him.

John 5:21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

Keep in mind that the book of John is relating to the lost sheep of the "House of Israel" and not to the Gentiles.
 

God's Truth

New member
Now you got it! :)

But see now you can run around saying, "You must be circumcised!", and those who do not walk according to the Spirit will likely go into violent convulsions and start calling you all sorts of vile names and epitaphs, (and if they already do anyways then who cares?). And when they do I just chuckle, (and that usually causes even worse convulsions with accusations of "fallen from grace" and "mocking God"). :chuckle:

HA! Exactly!
 

God's Truth

New member
GT has her own way of thinking and can't go beyond that. She has made herself UNTEACHABLE when it comes to the truths of Paul's Gospel. Paul calls it his Gospel, for he received it from the "Ascended Lord Jesus Christ." Most people have rejected this "True Gospel" and insist on trying to EARN eternal life/Salvation on their own. Both GT and Meshak would rather try and EARN it than RECEIVE it freely from God. That's their right according to their free-will choice.

My life changed when I finally did what Jesus says.
Doing what he says is light, it is life, it is Spirit.
I depend on him for everything.
He transforms my mind.
He lives through me and I through him.

As for Paul calling it his gospel, he said that because he is an apostle, and apostles are not taught by other people they are the ones speaking scripture.

Paul calls it the gospel of God, the Gospel of Christ, Paul’s gospel, and our gospel.
 

God's Truth

New member
Keep in mind that the book of John is relating to the lost sheep of the "House of Israel" and not to the Gentiles.

It was decided that Paul go to the Gentiles, not because of a different gospel.
You are not a Corinthian, and you are not Timothy or Titus, but you read and go by those letters.
 

daqq

Well-known member
Oh that is so good to hear. I thought you were saying we should still be circumcised in the flesh to prove we are circumcised in the heart.

HA! Exactly!

Israelites who are truly circumcised according to the scripture are all pretty much circumcised in the same manner. The are four "generations" to the first age of the man, like the four seasons in the full revolution of a year: Autumn, Winter, Spring, and the Summer of your harvest, (hear the parable of the fig tree). These four generations are likened unto four beasts which are the beasts of man, (the fourth beast is dreadful and terrible). And these things we know because the scripture cannot be broken, and in the new covenant every man will die for his own sins; the fathers shall not be put to death for the sons, neither shall the sons be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin, (Deut 24:16), and yet we read also in the Torah the statements of Gen 15:16, Exo 20:5, 34:7, Num 14:18, and Deut 5:9. So with these statements and what is written in Eze 18:2, 3, 4, and Jer 31:27, 28, 29, 30, 31, (both of these passages being new covenant language), there can be only one resolution if all of it be true; and that is that there must be four generations to the one selfsame man, (for the scripture cannot be broken and all of it must be held true and without contradiction).

Proverbs 30:11-14
11 There is a generation
[1] that curses their father and does not bless their mother.
12 There is a generation
[2] that are pure in their own eyes and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
13 There is a generation,
[3] O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
14 There is a generation,
[4] whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, [Dan 7:7, "great iron teeth"] to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.

These four generations are like a lion or a lioness, (Septuagint version of Dan 7:4), a she-bear robbed of her cubs, a leopard or a leopardess, and a fourth wild beast dreadful and terrible, with great iron teeth like swords and jaw teeth as knives. Moreover the fourth beast has a full-on heart of stone like Pharaoh that great dragon in the midst of his rivers; and over that heart of stone develops a caul or chestplate of iron so that it ends up taking these four beasts just to cleave open the hardened chestplate of iron, (for Elohim uses our own wild beasts against us to bring us into true repentance while at the same time putting the beasts of man into subjection, (the flesh, "their lives are prolonged for a season and a time")). And at the consummation of the first "age" or "dispensation" of the man, in his "fourth generation" which is his fourth beast; the iron chestplate of the caul over the heart is rent asunder and cleaved open so that the heart may be removed for circumcision by the Master, the Minister of the circumcision, (Hos 13:6-11, Dan 7:2-11, Rom 14:10, 2Cor 5:10, Rev 13:2). In that day Zerubbabel himself will remove the headstone heart of stone from the cavity of the wild beast of the man; and there will be shouts of "Grace! Grace to him!", (Zec 4:7, 2Cor 12:1-8, 9). And from that time time shall be no more; and so shall the holy ones ever be with the Master in the age which is to come, (and in this age they cannot die anymore; for they are as the angels, and are sons of Elohim, being sons of the resurrection, Luke 20:36). :)
 

God's Truth

New member
Israelites who are truly circumcised according to the scripture are all pretty much circumcised in the same manner. The are four "generations" to the first age of the man, like the four seasons in the full revolution of a year: Autumn, Winter, Spring, and the Summer of your harvest, (hear the parable of the fig tree). These four generations are likened unto four beasts which are the beasts of man, (the fourth beast is dreadful and terrible). And these things we know because the scripture cannot be broken, and in the new covenant every man will die for his own sins; the fathers shall not be put to death for the sons, neither shall the sons be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin, (Deut 24:16), and yet we read also in the Torah the statements of Gen 15:16, Exo 20:5, 34:7, Num 14:18, and Deut 5:9. So with these statements and what is written in Eze 18:2, 3, 4, and Jer 31:27, 28, 29, 30, 31, (both of these passages being new covenant language), there can be only one resolution if all of it be true; and that is that there must be four generations to the one selfsame man, (for the scripture cannot be broken and all of it must be held true and without contradiction).

Proverbs 30:11-14
11 There is a generation
[1] that curses their father and does not bless their mother.
12 There is a generation
[2] that are pure in their own eyes and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
13 There is a generation,
[3] O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
14 There is a generation,
[4] whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, [Dan 7:7, "great iron teeth"] to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.

These four generations are like a lion or a lioness, (Septuagint version of Dan 7:4), a she-bear robbed of her cubs, a leopard or a leopardess, and a fourth wild beast dreadful and terrible, with great iron teeth like swords and jaw teeth as knives. Moreover the fourth beast has a full-on heart of stone like Pharaoh that great dragon in the midst of his rivers; and over that heart of stone develops a caul or chestplate of iron so that it ends up taking these four beasts just to cleave open the hardened chestplate of iron, (for Elohim uses our own wild beasts against us to bring us into true repentance while at the same time putting the beasts of man into subjection, (the flesh, "their lives are prolonged for a season and a time")). And at the consummation of the first "age" or "dispensation" of the man, in his "fourth generation" which is his fourth beast; the iron chestplate of the caul over the heart is rent asunder and cleaved open so that the heart may be removed for circumcision by the Master, the Minister of the circumcision, (Hos 13:6-11, Dan 7:2-11, Rom 14:10, 2Cor 5:10, Rev 13:2). In that day Zerubbabel himself will remove the headstone heart of stone from the cavity of the wild beast of the man; and there will be shouts of "Grace! Grace to him!", (Zec 4:7, 2Cor 12:1-8, 9). And from that time time shall be no more; and so shall the holy ones ever be with the Master in the age which is to come, (and in this age they cannot die anymore; for they are as the angels, and are sons of Elohim, being sons of the resurrection, Luke 20:36). :)

I am not sure I understand all that you are saying here. Maybe you could explain it more to me?
 
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