On Cowards and Heroes

[ok doser]

I'll come back to this later to support my statement that most of the victims in the Umpqua shooting (as well as the Colorado movie theater shooting) acted cowardly

I plan to use dictionary definitions! :banana:

and logical analysis!! :banana::banana:



i expect my opponents will use emotion :darwinsm:



go ahead and start if you like, i have a test looming and a paper to write, but i will be back

 

[patrick jane]

I'll come back to this later to support my statement that most of the victims in the Umpqua shooting (as well as the Colorado movie theater shooting) acted cowardly

I plan to use dictionary definitions! :banana:

and logical analysis!! :banana::banana:



i expect my opponents will use emotion :darwinsm:



go ahead and start if you like, i have a test looming and a paper to write, but i will be back

I give you the benefit of doubt, but that's an unnecessary comment. How could they be cowards when they didn't know it was going to happen

 

[shagster01]

It's fight or flight. I assume you are going to say flight is cowardly. I would disagree if that is indeed what you will say.

 

[patrick jane]

It's fight or flight. I assume you are going to say flight is cowardly. I would disagree if that is indeed what you will say.

I agree. People that are closest to the shooter should try to fight and disarm them. Again, easier said than done. We aren't in an action thriller movie.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

I'll come back to this later to support my statement that most of the victims in the Umpqua shooting (as well as the Colorado movie theater shooting) acted cowardly
...
i expect my opponents will use emotion :darwinsm:

I don't know if following one's human nature (the survival instinct) is "cowardly". I suppose you could call me one of your "opponents".

 

[ok doser]

I haven't followed this on the msm at all, so I'm working from wiki:

At 10:38 a.m. PDT, the first 9-1-1 call was made from Snyder Hall on the school campus reporting shooting.[5] Students reported that the shooting began in Classroom 15, where English and writing classes are conducted.[6][7]

Harper-Mercer, who was a student in the writing class, shot the assistant English professor at point-blank range. Some witnesses said he then forced fellow students to the center of the classroom[8] and asked several for their religion before shooting them.[9] Other witnesses said he asked if students were Christians, mocking those who replied in the affirmative that they would go to heaven as he shot them.[a] Some students were shot multiple times;[9][12][13] one woman was struck several times in the stomach while trying to close a classroom door.[14] One witness said he made a woman beg for her life before shooting her, and also shot another woman when she tried to reason with him.[15] One victim, Sarena Dawn Moore, was killed while seated in a wheelchair.[16] Another witness said Harper-Mercer deliberately spared one student's life so that student could deliver a package from him to police,[17] and forced him to sit at the back of the classroom and watch as he continued shooting.[18]

contrast the actions of those victims with the following:

According to a witness, Chris Mintz, a U.S. Army veteran who was studying fitness training at the college,[38] ran to the library, where he began pulling alarms and telling people to run away.[39] He then ran into the building where the shooting was taking place and attempted to block Harper-Mercer from moving out of Classroom 15. Mintz was shot three times while standing and another four times while on the floor, but survived.

in the first case, the victims act as society has trained them to act - as sheep, with the only act of resistance being an attempt to reason with an insane person

in the second case, we have a man who runs toward the danger to confront it and confine it, with no regard for his own safety

 

[patrick jane]

Well that's just it, some people act heroically WITH NO REGARD FOR THEIR OWN SAFETY, and others try to stay safe. Every case is different but I promise if I am being herded for a slaughter I'm going out as a hero to stop the shooter(s). I am in no way saying the victims could have done more, as I said every case is different

 

[ok doser]

I like the OED for definitive definitions

coward, n.

Pronunciation: /ˈkaʊəd/
Forms: ME cueard, cuard, ME cuward, couard, couward, couwarde, couherde, ME–15 cowart, ... (Show More)
Etymology: < Old French coart (cohart , cuard , cowairt , later couart , couard ... (Show More)
A. n.
Thesaurus »

1. A reproachful designation for one who displays ignoble fear or want of courage in the face of danger, pain, or difficulty; an ignobly faint-hearted or pusillanimous person.

 

[ok doser]

... I'm going out as a hero to stop the shooter(s).

and some will say that by saying so, you are disrespecting those who acted cowardly

 

[ok doser]

It's fight or flight. I assume you are going to say flight is cowardly. I would disagree if that is indeed what you will say.

i hope to bring this up in my psych class next period

when you are presented with a "flight or fight" response and your response is "flight" but you are prevented from fleeing, what happens?

are people more apt to freeze, to flee inwardly (cower), or to switch to "fight" mode?

 

[chair]

...but I promise if I am being herded for a slaughter I'm going out as a hero to stop the shooter(s)...

Nobody knows how they will behave in such a situation until it happens.

"One who puts on armor should not brag like one who takes it off."

 

[HisServant]

i hope to bring this up in my psych class next period

when you are presented with a "flight or fight" response and your response is "flight" but you are prevented from fleeing, what happens?

are people more apt to freeze, to flee inwardly (cower), or to switch to "fight" mode?

Most men awarded the Medal of Honor and considered a hero are noted for acting against their flight instinct to protect/save others.

 

[ok doser]

I'm going to focus on

1. A reproachful designation for one who displays ignoble fear or want of courage in the face of danger, pain, or difficulty; an ignobly faint-hearted or pusillanimous person.

courage:

courage

noun
BrE /ˈkʌrɪdʒ/
; NAmE /ˈkɜːrɪdʒ/

the ability to do something dangerous, or to face pain or opposition, without showing fear

 

[patrick jane]

and some will say that by saying so, you are disrespecting those who acted cowardly

I'm not at all, it's my opinion of what I would do, no reflection on anyone but me and the shooter; tunnel vision.

 

[ok doser]

Nobody knows how they will behave in such a situation until it happens.

sure they can

if they've prepared for it, if they've trained for it, if they're mentally prepared for it

that's why cops, firefighters, emts, military personnel, etc, undergo the training they do

so they won't freeze




that's why, for instance, I have to take these CPR/AED training courses every year - so that when an emergency happens, I can click into rescue mode without having to stop and think about it


as a society, we haven't been trained to confront a threat like the one in Umpqua

we've been trained to be sheep

 

[ok doser]

I'm not at all, it's my opinion of what I would do, no reflection on anyone but me and the shooter; tunnel vision.

i agree with you, but there are those who will argue otherwise


interminably



gotta work on my paper for a while :wave2:


woohoo! I got a 110/100 on my psych exam! :banana:

 

[patrick jane]

i agree with you, but there are those who will argue otherwise


interminably



gotta work on my paper for a while :wave2:


woohoo! I got a 110/100 on my psych exam! :banana:

good job Sigmund !!

 

[aCultureWarrior]

I'm going to focus on

courage:

I was going to suggest that, as courage and heroism are rare acts that need to be encouraged and praised in our self centered society.

BTW: Are you going to apologize to those who instinctively flee from imminent death for calling them "cowards"?

 

[Greg Jennings]

I'll come back to this later to support my statement that most of the victims in the Umpqua shooting (as well as the Colorado movie theater shooting) acted cowardly

I plan to use dictionary definitions! :banana:

and logical analysis!! :banana::banana:



i expect my opponents will use emotion :darwinsm:



go ahead and start if you like, i have a test looming and a paper to write, but i will be back

I'm sorry, but your comment is here is downright offensive. How are you judging how others, mostly young people, acted in an impromptu time of great stress and danger to their lives? What would you have them do? And who are you to say that you would have acted any differently under the stress of the situation?

When you're actuality thrust into a life threatening situation it's not the same as playing out a hero fantasy in your head. Things change because it's not a fantasy and your life is on the line.

Have you ever actually been in a similar situation? If not then you need to sit down and quit pretending

 

[Greg Jennings]

BTW: Are you going to apologize to those who instinctively flee from imminent death for calling them "cowards"?

Well said aCultureWarrior. His remarks were totally out of line. He acts as though he's been in the situation before and heroically charged the gunman himself. For some strange reason, I doubt that's the case. And I doubt it would be the case if he was ever caught in such a situation