Obama's First Scandal--"Fast and Furious"

Jerry Shugart

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Let's compare what is happening now in regard to what the Democracts are saying about Russia's influence on the past election with Obama's first scandal.

Today the Democracts are accusing Trump and those associated with his election campaign of conspiring with the Russians to swing the election to Russia. So far not any evidence of this has ever been found.

On the other hand, there was plenty of evidence that Obama's ATM was responsible for putting in the hands of the drug cartels over 2,000 guns which they allowed to "walk" across the border into Mexico. Those guns were responsible for hundreds of deaths in Mexico and some of those guns were used in a shoot-out with US border Patrol agents and one of them died.

Then later Obama's Attorney General, Eric Holder, got caught lying about what he knew about Operation Fast and Furious, in particular when he knew about it. Then the Assistant Attorney General attempted to cover up the whole mess by claiming that the ATF had nothing to do with the sale of the guns to the drug dealers or allowing them to be run across the border.

When the Republicans in the House attempted to obtain documents on this operation they were stopped dead cold by Obama's claim of Executive Privilege, even though earlier he had claimed to know nothing about this operation.

In the end Holder only was only held in contempt by the House. But today, the Democracts are calling for the resignation of Attorney General Jeff Sessions even though they have no evidence that he ever did anything against the law.

Today the Demos show such much concern for the Mexicans who are in the USA illegally but where was their concern in regard the justice due for all the Mexicans who died because of Obama's gun running scheme?
 

annabenedetti

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Gunwalking operations were also conducted during the Bush years. No matter whose administration, they should never have happened.
 

Jerry Shugart

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Gunwalking operations were also conducted during the Bush years. No matter whose administration, they should never have happened.

Obama lied when he said that "Fast and Furious" started under Bush but the records reveal that it started in October 2009 and he took office in January of the same year.

Under Bush there was Operation Wide Receiver and guns were allowed to walk across the border with assurance from ATF "that Mexican officials would be conducting surveillance or interdictions when guns got to the other side of the border."

Under Obama there was no effort at all to trace the guns which were allowed to walk into Mexico. What was the purpose of Fast and Furious? Political, of course:

Furthermore, the operation may have had an explicitly political angle. E-mails obtained by CBS News in late 2011 showed ATF officials corresponding about the possibility of using Fast and Furious to push through a regulation requiring gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or “long guns.” In other words, the ATF permitted certain gun shops to conduct certain, inadvisable sales to dangerous people and then planned to point to those sales to justify the need for new reporting requirements.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/430153/fast-furious-obama-first-scandal

There was no criminal activity ever reported in regard to Operation Wide Receiver but that cannot be said of Fast and Furious. From the beginning until the end it was criminal and afterwards the cover-up was criminal!

And of course the same self righteous Democracts who asking Sessions to resign were silent in regard to the criminal activity of both Obama and Holder.

And here you are trying to defend those two crooks by asserting that what they did was OK because Bush did the same thing!
 

annabenedetti

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Under Bush there was Operation Wide Receiver and guns were allowed to walk across the border

Right. Gunwalking. You're not going to excuse that now, are you?

And here you are trying to defend those two crooks by asserting that what they did was OK because Bush did the same thing!

Apparently you quoted me without reading the second sentence. How else to explain how you could get it so wrong? I said: No matter whose administration, they should never have happened.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Right. Gunwalking. You're not going to excuse that now, are you?

No excuses are needed. They did it for the right reason and they had honest intentions. When it was discovered that it was not working it was discontinued.

Apparently you quoted me without reading the second sentence. How else to explain how you could get it so wrong? I said: No matter whose administration, they should never have happened.

Yes, in hindsight. And Bush put a stop to the program when he saw that it wasn't working. On the other hand, Obama did in fact know that it was ineffective but decided to use it for political purposes. Then more than 300 Mexicans were killed with those weapons.

And then when Fast and Furious became public knowledge there was a concerted effort on the part of Obama and Holder and the rest of the pious Democrats in power to cover up the truth. Despite that, you continue to defend your two crooks by saying that the Republicans also ran guns.

You just forget to mention the fact that Bush broke no laws but the laws which both Obama and Holder committed resulted in the deaths of hundreds of Mexicans!

And now we see the crocodile tears of the Democrats crying for the Mexicans who are in the USA illegally!

Yes, the same Democrats who couldn't have cared less for the Mexicans who were killed while living legally in their own country!
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Boy, that's a newsflash Gerald (Obama lying). Just how does Obama being a pathological liar vindicate Donald Trump of all of the shady things that he's done?

The point I am making is in regard to the Democrat's accusations against Trump (which haven't been proven) and the Demo's reaction to Obama's Fast and Furious scandal.
 

jgarden

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The point I am making is in regard to the Democrat's accusations against Trump (which haven't been proven) and the Demo's reaction to Obama's Fast and Furious scandal.
The Republicans rationale for replacing a Democratic Administration was that they would hold themselves to a higher standard - which totally contradicts the point "Jerry Shugart" is now trying to make.

Given that they have control of the White House and majorities in the House and Senate, there should be no excuses for not successfully passing their legislative agenda through Congress.

The embarrassing reality is that the Trump Administration is so inept that it can't even introduce a travel ban that can withstand judicial challenges!
 

Danoh

New member
The Republicans rationale for replacing a Democratic Administration was that they would hold themselves to a higher standard - which totally contradicts the point "Jerry Shugart" is now trying to make.

Given that they have control of the White House and majorities in the House and Senate, there should be no excuses for not successfully passing their legislative agenda through Congress.

The embarrassing reality is that the Trump Administration is so inept that it can't even introduce a travel ban that can withstand judicial challenges!

Yep :thumb:

The Trumpers pulling the old Kellyanne deflecting.

Fact of the matter is that the Trump Administration is the one presently the subject of a thus far proven their own self-induced scandal.

Obama?

Over with.

Bush 2?

Over with.

Clinton?

Not only over with, but a narrow escape from Clinton Two.

Bush 1?

Over with.

Reagan?

Rest in peace.

The problems on our table?

Ever the current Administration's responsibility to both attempt to solve for, as well as go beyond, but also, to not worsen.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The Republicans rationale for replacing a Democratic Administration was that they would hold themselves to a higher standard - which totally contradicts the point "Jerry Shugart" is now trying to make.

Why does that contradict anything which I have said?
 

aCultureWarrior

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Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Boy, that's a newsflash Gerald (Obama lying). Just how does Obama being a pathological liar vindicate Donald Trump of all of the shady things that he's done?

The point I am making is in regard to the Democrat's accusations against Trump (which haven't been proven) and the Demo's reaction to Obama's Fast and Furious scandal.

Something happened while you were participating in all of those "My church is better than your church!" threads Gerald:

An election was held and an extremely sick moral degenerate who greatly admires the mass murdering leader of Russia was elected President of the United States (replacing an extremely sick moral degenerate who admires communists as well, but not quite as openly as Trump does).

Seek out the truth about Donald Trump Gerald, you'll be a better man for doing so.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
An election was held and an extremely sick moral degenerate who greatly admires the mass murdering leader of Russia was elected President of the United States (replacing an extremely sick moral degenerate who admires communists as well, but not quite as openly as Trump does).

Trump never sold the USA down the river like Hillary did when she arranged for Russia to be able to purchase 20% of the USA's uranium reserves in exchange for a contribution to the Clinton Foundation!

As if she needed the money! Trump may have some shortcomings but he is not pure evil like Bill and Hillary.
 

aCultureWarrior

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Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

Something happened while you were participating in all of those "My church is better than your church!" threads Gerald:
An election was held and an extremely sick moral degenerate who greatly admires the mass murdering leader of Russia was elected President of the United States (replacing an extremely sick moral degenerate who admires communists as well, but not quite as openly as Trump does).

Trump never sold the USA down the river like Hillary did when she arranged for Russia to be able to purchase 20% of the USA's uranium reserves in exchange for a contribution to the Clinton Foundation!

As if she needed the money! Trump may have some shortcomings but he is not pure evil like Bill and Hillary.

One only need look at Trump's past history with Russia (and the people who surround him, i.e. Rex Tillerson) to know that there should be a big red warning flag flying for the American people to be very concerned about.

Trump’s Russian connections
https://ig.ft.com/sites/trumps-russian-connections/

Keep in mind that Donald Trump has only been in office just over a month Gerald, and that he has kept so many policies (and some people) from the Obama adminstation.

Open your eyes and seek out the truth Gerald, don't play partisan politics.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
One only need look at Trump's past history with Russia...

Tell us all about it, buddy. Then tell us what you think about Hillary's history with Russia, especially about her accepting a bribe which resulted in Russia ending up in control of 20% of the uranium reserves previously controlled by the USA.

What a sweetheart!
 

aCultureWarrior

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Tell us all about it, buddy.

I was hoping that you'd ask.

Since the Financial Times link didn't work, I'll use the same article from USAToday:

Let's start off with just the early years shall we Gerald?

1987: Trump was invited to Moscow by the Soviet ambassador to the United States*to discuss luxury hotel developments. Trump*later told Playboy magazine that his plans to build hotels in Moscow failed because the country “was out of control and the leadership knows it.” Four years later, on*Christmas Day, the Soviet Union officially dissolved, and Russians who had been allowed to buy state-owned enterprises amassed enormous fortunes.
1996: While wrapping up a series of bankruptcies in New York, Trump talked of building a replica of his Trump Tower in Moscow*and*traveled there to discuss renovating the Moskva and Rossiya hotels, according to Bloomberg News. The bankruptcies led to a change in Trump’s business model:*Instead of building projects from the ground up, he signed licensing agreements that in some cases gave him an ownership stake in properties that bore his name without putting up any of his own money. The Trump Organization continued to seek wealthy investors in Russia.
Dozens of condominiums in Trump World Tower in midtown*Manhattan were bought by Russians*in the late 1990s, said Dolly Lenz, a real estate broker who sold many of the units. Many buyers sought an*audience with Trump, whose business acumen they respected, Lenz said.
Early 2000s: The Trump Organization developed several projects abroad, many of them*involving Russian money.
2007: Trump debuted*his Trump Super Premium Vodka at the Millionaire’s Fair in Moscow. Large orders for the gold-glazed spirit followed, but the brand fizzled by 2009, according to The*New York Times.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...trumps-ties-russia-go-back-30-years/97949746/

Let's not forget that the pornographic model (who did a lesbian photo shoot) that Trump married is from a Russian satellite nation as well.


Then tell us what you think about Hillary's history with Russia, especially about her accepting a bribe which resulted in Russia ending up in control of 20% of the uranium reserves previously controlled by the USA.

What a sweetheart!

Check the newspaper Gerald, Hillary Clinton wasn't elected, Donald Trump was. Now about you seeking the truth about the Degenerate in Chief...
 

jgarden

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Why does that contradict anything which I have said?
"Jerry Shugart's" purpose for introducing "Obama's First Scandal--Fast and Furious" is nothing more than to divert attention away from the Trump Administration's current problems.

The point that "Jerry Shugart" is trying to make, however, is "moral equivalency" - reminding us that the Trump Administration is no worse than the Obama one.

As we all know, conservatives on this thread consider themselves to be more "righteous" than their liberal counterparts - which begs the question as to why they're not holding President Donald J. Trump to a higher standard than those "heathen" liberals!
 
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