ECT NT Eschatology #6: the people of the vineyard

I

Interplanner

Well-known member
#6 of 10.
The previous was: Acts 26 shapes Israel's outcome.

[re threaded with a TITLE this time; it seems to help get people involved!]

#6: The "people" of Mt 21's vineyard workers parable who receive the kingdom are the church, the honest, actual believers, no matter their race, education, gender, tribe or tongue. The term used is surprisingly 'ethnei' which is usually understood as the ancestral source. That makes the passage so fascinating. There really is a new ethnos and it is from all of the above. It is none of the old ones in the usual sense.

The taken/given verbs also mean he did try to get Israel to produce its fruit, but it didn't. so they will have a wretched end, which is elaborated on in Mt 24. In case there is any doubt, the leaders knew he was talking about them.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Are there really no comments on this? Do people who try to figure out what the whole Bible means as a system never look at such a complete parable?

I meant to refer to Mt 21-25 above.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
#6 of 10.
The previous was: Acts 26 shapes Israel's outcome.

[re threaded with a TITLE this time; it seems to help get people involved!]

#6: The "people" of Mt 21's vineyard workers parable who receive the kingdom are the church,
Click to expand...

Of course, but which church
 
Totton Linnet

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Interplanner said:
#6 of 10.
The previous was: Acts 26 shapes Israel's outcome.

[re threaded with a TITLE this time; it seems to help get people involved!]

#6: The "people" of Mt 21's vineyard workers parable who receive the kingdom are the church, the honest, actual believers, no matter their race, education, gender, tribe or tongue. The term used is surprisingly 'ethnei' which is usually understood as the ancestral source. That makes the passage so fascinating. There really is a new ethnos and it is from all of the above. It is none of the old ones in the usual sense.

The taken/given verbs also mean he did try to get Israel to produce its fruit, but it didn't. so they will have a wretched end, which is elaborated on in Mt 24. In case there is any doubt, the leaders knew he was talking about them.
Click to expand...

.....The leaders

The Pharisees and chiefs, they were Herodians, cronies of the Romans, that's who will have a wretched end. They were put into places of rulership to keep the people down.....learn that

Ya know Jesus said "for the last shall be first and the first shall be last"

It is one of those sayings of the Lord which is a play on words

Can you tell from it who will be first and who last? look at it carefully.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
If you grasp that, then maybe you can grasp the 1st century meaning of the motto found in I thess about 'peace and safety.' Paul was saying those in Judaism who were comfortable in their place in Roman administration would face sudden destruction. The thing that provided 'peace and safety' would turn on them.

But there also were many non-leadership followers of Judaism who were also caught up in the revolt by the zealots and were ruined. I think the leaders were the most surprised when Roman armies turned on them. At least they appeared to be loyal. Paul's account by Luke shows no hostility to Rome, except for personal confrontation about their lives. There is much more friction between Paul and Judaism's leaders than between Paul and Rome, but Rome still took his life, as far as we know.
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
#6 of 10.
The previous was: Acts 26 shapes Israel's outcome.

[re threaded with a TITLE this time; it seems to help get people involved!]

#6: The "people" of Mt 21's vineyard workers parable who receive the kingdom are the church, the honest, actual believers, no matter their race, education, gender, tribe or tongue. The term used is surprisingly 'ethnei' which is usually understood as the ancestral source. That makes the passage so fascinating. There really is a new ethnos and it is from all of the above. It is none of the old ones in the usual sense.

The taken/given verbs also mean he did try to get Israel to produce its fruit, but it didn't. so they will have a wretched end, which is elaborated on in Mt 24. In case there is any doubt, the leaders knew he was talking about them.
Click to expand...


Hi and what is the verse for your point ???

dan p
 
D

Danoh

New member
Interplanner said:
If you grasp that, then maybe you can grasp the 1st century meaning of the motto found in I thess about 'peace and safety.' Paul was saying those in Judaism who were comfortable in their place in Roman administration would face sudden destruction. The thing that provided 'peace and safety' would turn on them.

But there also were many non-leadership followers of Judaism who were also caught up in the revolt by the zealots and were ruined. I think the leaders were the most surprised when Roman armies turned on them. At least they appeared to be loyal. Paul's account by Luke shows no hostility to Rome, except for personal confrontation about their lives. There is much more friction between Paul and Judaism's leaders than between Paul and Rome, but Rome still took his life, as far as we know.
Click to expand...

Perhaps I will have to reread the history. I could have sworn, that, as is often the case; any sense of peace and safety had long flown the coop by the time Rome got around to unleashing its fury on Jerusalem.

Bad enough you are way off on what role the Scripture asserts God, Israel, and Rome actually played in all that; must you continue to wax worse and worse in your guessing at these things?
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Long flown the coop? The Herodians? yes, you better reread.

All you have to do Danoh, is find a real reason why Rome should punish Paul in his mission work. They can't. It "doesn't have anything to do with them." The people who are PO'd are the Jews in Roman admin all through Acts in their 'secure' admin positions. It is those people about whom the Rev refers as the whore. Paul leverages his Roman citizenship, and he is able to minister all over the place in Rome through his house confinement. Even the blowup at Ephesus does not attract Roman wrath. The wrath comes from the industry who stands to lose sales.

Find historians trying to deal with why Luke-Acts were written, not theologians, and you'll get off to a good start. Cullmann, Nolland, for example.
 
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