musterion
Well-known member
The issue for me is where it all came from.
It did not come from the Pauline section of the Bible so no one who isn't ignorant could say "Christmas is a Christian holiday" with a straight face. One can BELIEVE that it is. Many do. But you can also sit in your garage and say "I'm a Chevy" but that's not true either.
As far as Christmas goes, both the absence of Bible support and secular history indicate it's nothing more than pagan human traditions that were long ago repackaged (thanks, Catholics) with some biblical imagery and terminology overlaid on top.
Fun fact: every O.T. example of a green tree set up in a place of attention and admiration is an example of pagan idol worship, which God told Israel not to partake of and to destroy. So, the tradition of the Christmas tree does indeed comes not from the Bible but, most directly, from Germanic reverence to Odin...a pagan idol who was somehow revered in the form of an evergreen tree under which he gave gifts to the faithful.
Does that mean modern Christmas trees = O.T. pagan idol worship? No...but that is the closest biblical thing to a Christmas tree that you can find. And that ain't a good thing. Is it not the very kind of pagan idolatry that Paul said the Corinthians had been saved OUT of and AWAY from?
Follow up question: When you object, "Okay, maybe all of that is true but in MY house, I do not intend the tree to reflect ANY of that!" . . . does that difference matter? You tell me, I'm asking.
Now, look. I'm not unreasonable. If someone just wants a traditional holiday with no pretense of religious weight attached to it (as it pretty much is for most), December 25 works. So would July 9th. Fine, whatever.
But it's impossible to entirely extricate Christmas from much false baggage regarding Christ, or most definitely the verifiably pagan baggage...much less somehow sanctify it...it just can't be done; if you try you won't be left with much of anything.
But you'll have an easier time of that than if, on the off chance, you really wanted to be biblical about commemorating the birth of Christ (for which, btw, there is no biblical example for Christians...His death, yes, birth, no). In that case, December won't cut it. Nor will pretty much anything else.
Just my opinion.
It did not come from the Pauline section of the Bible so no one who isn't ignorant could say "Christmas is a Christian holiday" with a straight face. One can BELIEVE that it is. Many do. But you can also sit in your garage and say "I'm a Chevy" but that's not true either.
As far as Christmas goes, both the absence of Bible support and secular history indicate it's nothing more than pagan human traditions that were long ago repackaged (thanks, Catholics) with some biblical imagery and terminology overlaid on top.
Fun fact: every O.T. example of a green tree set up in a place of attention and admiration is an example of pagan idol worship, which God told Israel not to partake of and to destroy. So, the tradition of the Christmas tree does indeed comes not from the Bible but, most directly, from Germanic reverence to Odin...a pagan idol who was somehow revered in the form of an evergreen tree under which he gave gifts to the faithful.
Does that mean modern Christmas trees = O.T. pagan idol worship? No...but that is the closest biblical thing to a Christmas tree that you can find. And that ain't a good thing. Is it not the very kind of pagan idolatry that Paul said the Corinthians had been saved OUT of and AWAY from?
Follow up question: When you object, "Okay, maybe all of that is true but in MY house, I do not intend the tree to reflect ANY of that!" . . . does that difference matter? You tell me, I'm asking.
Now, look. I'm not unreasonable. If someone just wants a traditional holiday with no pretense of religious weight attached to it (as it pretty much is for most), December 25 works. So would July 9th. Fine, whatever.
But it's impossible to entirely extricate Christmas from much false baggage regarding Christ, or most definitely the verifiably pagan baggage...much less somehow sanctify it...it just can't be done; if you try you won't be left with much of anything.
But you'll have an easier time of that than if, on the off chance, you really wanted to be biblical about commemorating the birth of Christ (for which, btw, there is no biblical example for Christians...His death, yes, birth, no). In that case, December won't cut it. Nor will pretty much anything else.
Just my opinion.
