ECT Nicodemus, a righteous man

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In John 3, Jesus is not talking about sin and hell when answering Nicodemus' questions. He is talking to a religious leader, a clean-living, upright, good, noble man__a natural man__and it was to him that He said_“Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.” For what, might we ask if he was righteous, one whose destination upon death was NOT hell fire and damnation?
 
Eeset

Eeset

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Cross Reference said:
In John 3, Jesus is not talking about sin and hell when answering Nicodemus' questions. He is talking to a religious leader, a clean-living, upright, good, noble man__a natural man__and it was to him that He said_“Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.” For what, might we ask if he was righteous, one whose destination upon death was NOT hell fire and damnation?
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During those days the Sadducee claimed there was no life after this one and the Pharisee (Nicodemus) claimed there was and it involved being lifted into heaven. It was a debate that evidently was of great concern to Nicodemus. Jesus said they are both wrong.
 
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Eeset said:
During those days the Sadducee claimed there was no life after this one and the Pharisee (Nicodemus) claimed there was and it involved being lifted into heaven. It was a debate that evidently was of great concern to Nicodemus. Jesus said they are both wrong.
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What did Jesus have to say to Nicodemus after having ignored any consideration for that issue that may have been in his mind?
 
I

Interplanner

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Their whole conversation is about what to do with Judaism now that Christ was here. The literalness of Judaism is the main feature of almost each question Nicodemus asks.
 
I

iamaberean

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Cross Reference said:
In John 3, Jesus is not talking about sin and hell when answering Nicodemus' questions. He is talking to a religious leader, a clean-living, upright, good, noble man__a natural man__and it was to him that He said_“Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.” For what, might we ask if he was righteous, one whose destination upon death was NOT hell fire and damnation?
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Nicodemus was a righteous man and according to the law he would be judged as such. But Jesus knew that the days of law were coming to an end and Nicodemus must be convinced that Jesus was the Messiah, and that requires faith and being born again.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 
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Bradley D

Bradley D

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You must be "born again." Being a Pharisee and obeying every tittle of the law will not get one into heaven. Becoming part of God's Kingdom as presented by Christ required a whole new spiritual change. A rebirth of ones' soul. Through Jesus God taught His commandments/how we should live. Love God, Love Neighbor. No one is perfect and must rely on Jesus' ultimate sacrifice to get into heaven/New Jerusalem/New Earth. Realization of this brings belief, sorrow, repentance.
 
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Bradley D said:
You must be "born again." Being a Pharisee and obeying every tittle of the law will not get one into heaven. Becoming part of God's Kingdom as presented by Christ required a whole new spiritual change. A rebirth of ones' soul. Through Jesus God taught His commandments/how we should live. Love God, Love Neighbor. No one is perfect and must rely on Jesus' ultimate sacrifice to get into heaven/New Jerusalem/New Earth. Realization of this brings belief, sorrow, repentance.
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But it is NOT about "getting into heaven" is it? Escaping hell and damnation wasn't the issue here either. All of that was incidental because of Nic's righteousness, Jesus knew He could have replied to Nicodemus with this: "I have come that you have life and have it more abundantly". But, He didn't. He rather explained what simply was needed for his righteousness to be converted to the righteousness of God to be made complete that would enable him to enter the kingdom of God ___ not escape hell. He would have gone to paradise, the bosom of Abraham, had he died before the cross.

Jesus went straight to what was needed for the completion of Nic's understanding about the requirements for entering the presence of God, i.e., except a man be "born again" that the Life of God might enter him. That was obviously something he didn't understand that had he, he would have sought after it. Having said that, I believe that was the [predestined] reason he came to Jesus in the first place, i.e., to get things properly sorted out to his thinking. Nic knew something was missing in his life for him to have secretly sought out Jesus.
 
Bradley D

Bradley D

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"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one..." (Romans 3:10). Written by a Pharisee who once thought he was righteous. It was important for Nicodemus to understand that he was also a sinner and needed to be saved by Christ.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

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Cross Reference said:
In John 3, Jesus is not talking about sin and hell when answering Nicodemus' questions. He is talking to a religious leader, a clean-living, upright, good, noble man__a natural man__and it was to him that He said_“Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.” For what, might we ask if he was righteous, one whose destination upon death was NOT hell fire and damnation?
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You seem to have read a lot into what the Bible actually says about Nicodemus. :think:
 
D

Danoh

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glorydaz said:
You seem to have read a lot into what the Bible actually says about Nicodemus. :think:
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I don't know, but it appeared to me from CR's post that his intended sense of all that pedigree of Nicodemas' was similar to how Paul had looked at his own in Philippians 3.

CR, what say you?
 
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Bradley D said:
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one..." (Romans 3:10). Written by a Pharisee who once thought he was righteous. It was important for Nicodemus to understand that he was also a sinner and needed to be saved by Christ.
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Nicodemus wasn't a sinner and Jesus didn't come to call him to repentance. Nicodemus didn't need salvation from anything but a more complete understanding about what salvation was meant to accomplish unto something other than the age old thinking of from something, the unto being the new birth from above that would restore him to the intended relationship with God.

re Romans 2:10: It IS NOT written to be understood as it has wrongly been interpreted to mean by religionists. Study it out. Paul was a righteous man. He was blameless!.What he needed was to be rectified in the ways of his righteous. Enter Jesus Christ to make that happen. This is why Jesus never said to the Disciples "Go get people saved". Even to the 70 who were sent out 2 by 2 , He never commanded that of them. How could when they had not been redeemed ?? Think, Bradley.
 
Bradley D

Bradley D

Well-known member
Cross Reference said:
Nicodemus wasn't a sinner and Jesus didn't come to call him to repentance. Nicodemus didn't need salvation from anything but a more complete understanding about what salvation was meant to accomplish unto something other than the age old thinking of from something, the unto being the new birth from above that would restore him to the intended relationship with God.

re Romans 2:10: It IS NOT written to be understood as it has wrongly been interpreted to mean by religionists. Study it out. Paul was a righteous man. He was blameless!.What he needed was to be rectified in the ways of his righteous. Enter Jesus Christ to make that happen. This is why Jesus never said to the Disciples "Go get people saved". Even to the 70 who were sent out 2 by 2 , He never commanded that of them. How could when they had not been redeemed ?? Think, Bradley.
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All are sinners. No one is omitted. Only the Lord Jesus was without sin.

Paul realized he was a sinner. "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do" (Romans 7:15). Paul realized he needed Christ as all do. "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus..." (Romans 8:1)
 
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1Mind1Spirit said:
God winked.

At Israel as well as the Gentiles.

You presume waaay too much.:think:
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No presumption in this. It isn't needed when you know your Bible.

God never "winked" at unrighteousness, nor did he ever call upon anyone to do His righteous bidding who was not blameless in His sight..
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Cross Reference said:
No presumption in this. It isn't needed when you know your Bible.

God never "winked" at unrighteousness, nor did he ever call upon anyone to do His righteous bidding who was not blameless in His sight..
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He called all of back sliding, stiff necked Israel all the day long.





John 10:8 KJV


8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

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Cross Reference said:
No presumption in this. It isn't needed when you know your Bible.

God never "winked" at unrighteousness, nor did he ever call upon anyone to do His righteous bidding who was not blameless in His sight..
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Blameless according to the law is not close to the righteousness of God. God did wink at the "times of this ignorance". That ignorance was not recognizing that righteousness didn't come from the law.

Acts 17:30-31
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.​
 
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