New moon = new month. Definition??

[iouae]

Does the Bible anywhere give the means of telling when a new month begins?

We assume it is with the sighting of the crescent moon in Jerusalem.
Why that and not the astronomical new moon?

I ask this in connection with Ps 81:3

3 Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day.

"In the time appointed" in Hebrew means on the FULL MOON.

But with Hebrew lunar months varying between 29 and 30+ days, the 15th of the lunar month sometimes is NOT the day of the full moon.

Here then comes the problem...
If the feasts are ON THE 15th and ON THE FULL MOON these are sometimes one day out.

Could it be that Christ ate Passover on the FULL MOON feast day and the Jews ate Passover on the 15th feast day?

I know nobody does this, but for feast keepers, why not first make the 15th the same evening as when the moon is fullest, and then work back to define the 1st day of the month.

Thanks for any replies in advance.

 

[Jacob]

The sighting of the new moon is a part of determining when is the head of the month.

The sighting would need to involve seeing the first sliver of light from the moon, rather than a calculation or when the moon is completely dark / black.

 

[iouae]

The sighting of the new moon is a part of determining when is the head of the month.

The sighting would need to involve seeing the first sliver of light from the moon, rather than a calculation or when the moon is completely dark / black.

Full moon is when the moon is COMPLETELY full.
One could argue that new moon is when the moon is COMPLETELY black.

Apart from tradition, is there any verse in the Bible telling us to use the sighting crescent method?

Thanks for your perspective.

 

[Jacob]

The Bible speaks of the head of the month, the new moon.

Do you know if you are able to see or sight the new moon if it were completely black?

The new moon can be sighted when the first sliver of light appears on the moon's face / surface.

 

[iouae]

The Bible speaks of the head of the month, the new moon.

Do you know if you are able to see or sight the new moon if it were completely black?

The new moon can be sighted when the first sliver of light appears on the moon's face / surface.

Does it bother you if Pesach and Succoth are not on the exact full moon but a day before or after?

 

[chair]

I know nobody does this, but for feast keepers, why not first make the 15th the same evening as when the moon is fullest, and then work back to define the 1st day of the month.

When this was originally set up, there wasn't a calendar. There were sightings of the new moon.

 

[Jacob]

Does it bother you if Pesach and Succoth are not on the exact full moon but a day before or after?

Pesach (or rather the feast of unleavened bread) and Succoth are on the 15th day of their respective months.

The new moon marks the beginning, start, or rather head of the month. We are not talking about the astronomical new moon which is completely dark or black.

 

[iouae]

Pesach (or rather the feast of unleavened bread) Succoth are on the 15th day of their respective months.

The new moon marks the beginning, start, or rather head of the month. We are not talking about the astronomical new moon which is completely dark or black.

Ps 81:3 says they should be on a full moon.

What I want is a scripture from you please telling us to sight the crescent. I am sure back then they could calculate the astronomical new moon as we can today.
If you don't have a scripture I don't blame you because I cannot find one either.

So we are left with the TRADITION of crescent sighting.

 

[Jacob]

Ps 81:3 says they should be on a full moon.

What I want is a scripture from you please telling us to sight the crescent. I am sure back then they could calculate the astronomical new moon as we can today.
If you don't have a scripture I don't blame you because I cannot find one either.

So we are left with the TRADITION of crescent sighting.

I am not telling you the new moon begins with the sighting of a crescent (moon).

I am telling you it does not begin with an astronomical new moon.

The days of the month are determined from the sighting of the new moon.

I do not have a scripture for you.

Have you observed an astronomical new moon?

I think it is easier to observe the first sliver of light.

 

[iouae]

I personally have tried to observe new moons staring into the sunset and unless you know exactly where to look, its nearly impossible.

I could just as easily calculate the astronomical new moon, and have.

Every evening and morning, the moon moves a set number of degrees, say compared to sunset. So every morning at sunrise the waning crescent can be seen to be an exact number of degrees closer to the sunrise. By this means I can easily calculate the astronomical new moon from observation.

The moon is new when the moon and sun rise at the same time.

 

[Jacob]

I personally have tried to observe new moons staring into the sunset and unless you know exactly where to look, its nearly impossible.

I could just as easily calculate the astronomical new moon, and have.

Every evening and morning, the moon moves a set number of degrees, say compared to sunset. So every morning at sunrise the waning crescent can be seen to be an exact number of degrees closer to the sunrise. By this means I can easily calculate the astronomical new moon from observation.

There is nothing about an astronomical new moon in the Bible.

 

[iouae]

There is nothing about an astronomical new moon in the Bible.

There is nothing about a crescent new moon in the Bible.

In fact the two are logically opposite since BY DEFINITION the moon is new when it has no crescent.

 

[Jacob]

There is nothing about a crescent new moon in the Bible.

In fact the two are ;logically opposite since BY DEFINITION the moon is new when it has no crescent.

You mentioned a crescent new moon.

But you are wanting to affirm an astronomical new moon.

I mentioned a Biblical new moon can only be observed in accordance with the sighting of the new moon, which I believe corresponds with the first sliver of light, not the absence of light, which in such circumstance you may not be able to observe the moon at all. From this point it was, I believe, that you mentioned calculations. The new moon is observed by sighting / observations, not calculation, or calculations.

 

[iouae]

You mentioned a crescent new moon.

But you are wanting to affirm an astronomical new moon.

I mentioned a Biblical new moon can only be observed in accordance with the sighting of the new moon, which I believe corresponds with the first sliver of light, not the absence of light, which in such circumstance you may not be able to observe the moon at all. From this point it was, I believe, that you mentioned calculations. The new moon is observed by sighting / observations, not calculation, or calculations.

I know it is. And maybe that is how it should be.

But maybe there is a need for a new Sanhedrin to change the calendar to upgrade it so that Pesach ALWAYS falls on a FULL MOON which is ALWAYS the 15th.

 

[Jacob]

I know it is. And maybe that is how it should be.

But maybe there is a need for a new Sanhedrin to change the calendar to upgrade it so that Pesach ALWAYS falls on a FULL MOON which is ALWAYS the 15th.

The 15th day of the month can only be determined by counting each day from the head of the month, which could only be by observation.

 

[iouae]

You know postponements which the Jewish Holy Day calendar setters use to make high Sabbaths coincide with the day they want. Maybe they should move the beginning of the month to ensure Pesach falls only on the full moon.

 

[iouae]

The Jewish Holy days today are NOT set by observation. They are calculated years in advance and posted on the internet for any place on earth.

 

[achduke]

Does the Bible anywhere give the means of telling when a new month begins?

We assume it is with the sighting of the crescent moon in Jerusalem.
Why that and not the astronomical new moon?

I ask this in connection with Ps 81:3

3 Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day.

"In the time appointed" in Hebrew means on the FULL MOON.

But with Hebrew lunar months varying between 29 and 30+ days, the 15th of the lunar month sometimes is NOT the day of the full moon.

Here then comes the problem...
If the feasts are ON THE 15th and ON THE FULL MOON these are sometimes one day out.

Could it be that Christ ate Passover on the FULL MOON feast day and the Jews ate Passover on the 15th feast day?

I know nobody does this, but for feast keepers, why not first make the 15th the same evening as when the moon is fullest, and then work back to define the 1st day of the month.

Thanks for any replies in advance.

You can calculate the new moon and it was even possible during the time of David. David knew when the new moon was even before the new moon festival.

1 Samuel 20:5 And David said unto Jonathan, Behold, to morrow is the new moon, and I should not fail to sit with the king at meat: but let me go, that I may hide myself in the field unto the third day at even.

 

[Jacob]

The Jewish Holy days today are NOT set by observation. They are calculated years in advance and posted on the internet for any place on earth.

You can count days of the month from the head of the month, which in Biblical times was by observation only is how I understand it.

There are three feasts and seven holy days of Torah.

 

[iouae]

You can calculate the new moon and it was even possible during the time of David.

1 Samuel 20:5 And David said unto Jonathan, Behold, to morrow is the new moon, and I should not fail to sit with the king at meat: but let me go, that I may hide myself in the field unto the third day at even.

That is a great scripture to show that the new moon can be calculated.