Interplanner
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Not only was the kingdom present, the difference between K of God and K of heaven is nil. He was talking to/about those who would say 'Lord, Lord' to him then.
ECT Mt 7's Lord, Lord and the kingdom
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Jerry Shugart
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If the kingdom was then present then why did the Lord Jesus say that it would not be near at hand until he returns to the earth?:
"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand" (Lk.21:27-31).
marhig
Well-known member
The kingdom of God certainly is present. It's here and now in the true people of God, If you have the holy spirit, then the kingdom of God is within you.
Luke 17
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day
There was a lightening storm in my town once, and it was pitch black outside, and I decided to take a picture. I got one just as the lightening lit up the sky, and when I looked back at the photo I took, it looked like broad daylight. You would have thought it was noon. I couldn't believe it and I thought that's what it's like when you receive light, one minute your in darkness and then you see clearly and understand. And that's what the the son of man is like in his day. When he comes its quick, its when you hear the word of God and you know in your heart is the truth, and it goes into your heart like a sword, and in that instant, your darkness is turned into light.
Revelation is like this, when you don't understand something, then God gives you revelation and it's like a light switch going on. Like a lightning striking. One minute you don't understand and God gives you wisdom and you see it clearly.
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SaulToPaul 2
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:chuckle:
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So are you actually saying that the Lord Jesus told these Pharisees that the kingdom of God was in them?
Heaven forbid!
Here is the correct translation:
"nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is in your midst" (Lk.17:21; NIV).
The kingdom of God was in their midst because the King was right there before them. The Lord Jesus made it plain that the kingdom would not be near at hand until He returns to the earth:
"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand" (Lk.21:27-31).
marhig
Well-known member
No not at all, although I wouldn't be surprised if some people here would say that, considering the way that they defend the pharasees, saying that they didn't know that they were doing when they crucified Jesus!
I believe that Jesus means that the kingdom of God is within us, he didn't mean within them personally instead meaning it's within our hearts. He was explaining that it doesn't come by observation. So he's saying that it's not seen with the natural eye, he was saying Gods kingdom is close and at hand. As I've said before, we ask for Gods kingdom to come in our daily prayers, so it's not a far away kingdom, God isn't a far away God he's a father that is always with us, as long as we love him and we are willing to deny ourselves and do his will.
Luke 17 KJV
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Sure...the kingdom of God was within the hearts of the Pharisees.....as they smoked pot?
Hi and here is what Luke 17:21 means , when it says ENTOS / WITHIN YOU means , The Kingdom ( JESUS ) is in your MIDIST and not within those who are walking with Jesus as Jesus is the Kingdom !!
dan p
marhig
Well-known member
Where do you think that the holy spirit comes from?
marhig
Well-known member
I'm just asking where you think the holy spirit comes from? I'm just wondering how you see it?
Right Divider
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:french:
The Holy Spirit has AWAYS BEEN Around as I believe in the TRINITY as in 1 John 5:7 and 8 and many others !!
dan p
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The Scriptures reveal that He was talking to them. Besides that, The Lord Jesus made it plain that the kingdom would not be near at hand until He returns to the earth:
"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand" (Lk.21:27-31).
Why do you continue to ignore this passage?
Right Divider
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The have this fairy tale version of the "story" that only allows for a small percentage of scripture and even then it's twisted into a pretzel.
marhig
Well-known member
But that's not what I asked?
And nothing in John 5:7-8 or elsewhere in the Bible, says that all three are one God. It says in those verses that there are three that bare record in heaven, and these three are one. And we are at one with God and Christ when we belong to them. As it says here in John 17
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
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marhig
Well-known member
I don't ignore that passage, I just don't see it as you do and Jesus makes it very clear that the kingdom of God is near, as he does when he taught us how to pray, what do you think Jesus meant when he said that we are to daily ask for Gods kingdom to come in the lords prayer? We are asking for his kingdom to come so that his will will be done in earth as it is in heaven. How will this all happen if his kingdom isn't near at hand?
Jesus made it very clear that the kingdom of God does not come by observation, and that the kingdom of God is within you yet I'm the one ignoring scripture? You are saying that the kingdom of God was there because Christ was in the midst, so what is in our heart if the spirit of Christ is within us?
marhig
Well-known member
Well maybe you need to go and read your Bible again! Because Jesus clearly says that the kingdom of God is with you. So it's not me twisting the scriptures!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So tell me how you tricked your mind into believing that now the Father's will is being done on the earth as it is being done in heaven.
Again, you just ignore the very words of the Lord Jesus when He says that the kingdom will not even be near at hand until He returns to the earth:
"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand" (Lk.21:27-31).
The kingdom will not come until the Lord Jesus returns and then begins to sit upon His throne:
"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).
We also know that when the Lord Jesus returns and reigns from His throne then He will "execute judgment and justice in the earth":
"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth" (Jer.23:5).
If you think that is happening now then you are totally confused!
marhig
Well-known member
Jerry if you don't know this, then you don't know God or the power of the holy spirit. Because once we receive his kingdom within, then his will will be done in earth as it is in heaven. And this is a daily prayer!
No, I'm not ignoring the scripture, I've said that I don't see it as you do, I don't believe that heaven is in the sky!
Where do you think his throne is? Floating on a natural cloud?
Also It is happening now, you just can't see it! Jesus has returned, he returned in that generation just as he said he would, Jesus doesn't lie.
He said, the kingdom comes not by observation, he tells the truth, he also said the kingdom of God is within you, the truth again. Jesus has returned, he was in his apostles, in his disciples and in all of his true church right up until this day, he is within the hearts of all the living stones that belong God. And the righteous branch has risen, and he is in the hearts of his people, he is executing judgement and justice in the earth now, he is within and through his people, as they bare witness to the truth, by speaking the word of God and living it out!
If we have the spirit of God in our hearts then Christ is within us, and if Christ is within us then the kingdom of God is come!
And if you don't know this, then you don't know the power of his resurrection.
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