Moses, The Swords and 30 Pieces of Silver

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Our flesh as an offering and teaching others our flesh is an acceptable offering to God is 30 pieces of Silver.

Matthew 26

14*Then one of the Twelve—the man called Judas Iscariot—went to the chief priests 15*and said, “What are you willing to give me if I hand Him over to you?” So they weighed out 30 pieces of silver for him. 16*And from that time he started looking for a good opportunity to betray Him

Religion of fleshly ritual and perfection is a tower of Babel, that man would build themselves up to Lord over the earth and claim highness with God of the works of their hands.

Luke 1428

"For which of you, wanting to build a tower, doesn't first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?

Genesis 11

4*And they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the sky. Let us make a name for ourselves; otherwise, we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

We either wear the Robe of Jesus, or offer the 30 pieces of Silver with our naked, sinful effort

Matthew 22 (HCSB)

11*But when the king came in to view the guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed for a wedding. 12*So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ The man was speechless.
13*“Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him up hand and foot,[a] and throw him into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
14*“For many are invited, but few are chosen.”

Moses is the sword of condemnation and Jesus is the Sword of Grace. One cleaves flesh, while the other heals the soul

Luke 22

47*While He was still speaking, suddenly a mob was there, and one of the Twelve named Judas was leading them. He came near Jesus to kiss Him, 48*but Jesus said to him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
49*When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they asked, “Lord, should we strike with the sword?” 50*Then one of them struck the high priest’s slave and cut off his right ear.
51*But Jesus responded, “No more of this!” And touching his ear, He healed him. 52*Then Jesus said to the chief priests, temple police, and the elders who had come for Him, “Have you come out with swords and clubs as if I were a criminal? 53*Every day while I was with you in the temple complex, you never laid a hand on Me. But this is your hour—and the dominion of darkness.”

Here is Moses cleaving the flesh and bringing death

Exodus 32:27

He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says, 'Every man fasten his sword to his side; go back and forth through the camp from entrance to entrance, and each of you kill his brother, his friend, and his neighbor.'"

Here is the sword of Grace that offers Love in the face of failure

Hebrews 4:12

12*For the word of God is living and effective and sharper than any double-edged sword, penetrating as far as the separation of soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It is able to judge the ideas and thoughts of the heart.

Here is Jesus warning that all who cleave flesh by Moses, will die by Moses

Matthew 26: (HCSB)

52*Then Jesus told him, “Put your sword back in its place because all who take up a sword will perish by a sword.

The following is an interesting paraphrase of a portion of Galatians 5.

Galatians 5:19-21 (MSG)

19-21*repetitive, loveless, cheap sex; a stinking accumulation of mental and emotional garbage; frenzied and joyless grabs for happiness; trinket gods; magic-show religion; paranoid loneliness; cutthroat competition; all-consuming-yet-never-satisfied wants; a brutal temper; an impotence to love or be loved; divided homes and divided lives; small-minded and lopsided pursuits; the vicious habit of depersonalizing everyone into a rival; uncontrolled and uncontrollable addictions; ugly parodies of community. I could go on.

This isn’t the first time I have warned you, you know. If you use your freedom this way, you will not inherit God’s kingdom.

This is the fruits of the flesh and I have suggested Spiritual revelations behind the Flesh of the Scripture

Galatians 5:19-21 (HCSB)
19*Now the works of the flesh are obvious:

sexual immorality,

~ Rejoining to Moses after accepting Union with Christ

moral impurity,

~ Contesting the Unconditional Love of God

promiscuity,

~ Joining to Doctrines of Men

20*idolatry,

~ Trusting men's teachings with your salvation and exalting houses of men and the men that teach there.

sorcery,

~ Man made illusions that appear to be the work of God

hatreds,

~ Judging and Condemning

strife,

~ Quarreling against the work of God and His immeasurable provision of Grace.

jealousy,

~ Cain being angry that his toil in the dust of the earth was not acceptable and Abel's offering up the Lamb of God being acceptable. Murder followed.

outbursts of anger,

~ Hostility to any human being

selfish ambitions,

~ Using God for monetary gain, physical pride in flesh or simply seeking the approval of men in your pursuit of God.

dissensions,

~ Groups that consort agains one another.

factions,

~ Dividing Christ beyond His universal proclamation of Salvation and Unconditional Love of all humanity.

21*envy,

~ Condemning Free People for not being yoked to Moses

drunkenness,

~ A Spirit that is drunk on the hard liquor of Moses that bears judgment and condemnation.

carousing,

~ 15*“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as fit for hell as you are!

and anything similar. I tell you about these things in advance—as I told you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

http://www.shangralafamilyfun.com/galf-j/jesus18.gif

Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

 

[daqq]

Our flesh as an offering and teaching others our flesh is an acceptable offering to God is 30 pieces of Silver.

Matthew 26

14*Then one of the Twelve—the man called Judas Iscariot—went to the chief priests 15*and said, “What are you willing to give me if I hand Him over to you?” So they weighed out 30 pieces of silver for him. 16*And from that time he started looking for a good opportunity to betray Him

Religion of fleshly ritual and perfection is a tower of Babel, that man would build themselves up to Lord over the earth and claim highness with God of the works of their hands.

Luke 1428

"For which of you, wanting to build a tower, doesn't first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?

Genesis 11

4*And they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the sky. Let us make a name for ourselves; otherwise, we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

We either wear the Robe of Jesus, or offer the 30 pieces of Silver with our naked, sinful effort

Matthew 22 (HCSB)

11*But when the king came in to view the guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed for a wedding. 12*So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ The man was speechless.
13*“Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him up hand and foot,[a] and throw him into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
14*“For many are invited, but few are chosen.”

Moses is the sword of condemnation and Jesus is the Sword of Grace. One cleaves flesh, while the other heals the soul

Luke 22

47*While He was still speaking, suddenly a mob was there, and one of the Twelve named Judas was leading them. He came near Jesus to kiss Him, 48*but Jesus said to him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
49*When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they asked, “Lord, should we strike with the sword?” 50*Then one of them struck the high priest’s slave and cut off his right ear.
51*But Jesus responded, “No more of this!” And touching his ear, He healed him. 52*Then Jesus said to the chief priests, temple police, and the elders who had come for Him, “Have you come out with swords and clubs as if I were a criminal? 53*Every day while I was with you in the temple complex, you never laid a hand on Me. But this is your hour—and the dominion of darkness.”

Here is Moses cleaving the flesh and bringing death

Exodus 32:27

He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says, 'Every man fasten his sword to his side; go back and forth through the camp from entrance to entrance, and each of you kill his brother, his friend, and his neighbor.'"

Here is the sword of Grace that offers Love in the face of failure

Hebrews 4:12

12*For the word of God is living and effective and sharper than any double-edged sword, penetrating as far as the separation of soul and spirit, joints and marrow. It is able to judge the ideas and thoughts of the heart.

Here is Jesus warning that all who cleave flesh by Moses, will die by Moses

Matthew 26: (HCSB)

52*Then Jesus told him, “Put your sword back in its place because all who take up a sword will perish by a sword.

The following is an interesting paraphrase of a portion of Galatians 5.

Galatians 5:19-21 (MSG)

19-21*repetitive, loveless, cheap sex; a stinking accumulation of mental and emotional garbage; frenzied and joyless grabs for happiness; trinket gods; magic-show religion; paranoid loneliness; cutthroat competition; all-consuming-yet-never-satisfied wants; a brutal temper; an impotence to love or be loved; divided homes and divided lives; small-minded and lopsided pursuits; the vicious habit of depersonalizing everyone into a rival; uncontrolled and uncontrollable addictions; ugly parodies of community. I could go on.

This isn’t the first time I have warned you, you know. If you use your freedom this way, you will not inherit God’s kingdom.

This is the fruits of the flesh and I have suggested Spiritual revelations behind the Flesh of the Scripture

Galatians 5:19-21 (HCSB)
19*Now the works of the flesh are obvious:

sexual immorality,

~ Rejoining to Moses after accepting Union with Christ

moral impurity,

~ Contesting the Unconditional Love of God

promiscuity,

~ Joining to Doctrines of Men

20*idolatry,

~ Trusting men's teachings with your salvation and exalting houses of men and the men that teach there.

sorcery,

~ Man made illusions that appear to be the work of God

hatreds,

~ Judging and Condemning

strife,

~ Quarreling against the work of God and His immeasurable provision of Grace.

jealousy,

~ Cain being angry that his toil in the dust of the earths as not acceptable and Abel's offering up the Lamb of God being acceptable. Murder followed.

outbursts of anger,

~ Hostility to any human being

selfish ambitions,

~ Using God for monetary gain, physical pride in flesh or simply seeking the approval of men in your pursuit of God.

dissensions,

~ Groups that consort agains one another.

factions,

~ Dividing Christ beyond His universal proclamation of Salvation and Unconditional Love of all humanity.

21*envy,

~ Condemning Free People for not being yoked to Moses

drunkenness,

~ A Spirit that is drink on the hard liquor of Moses that bears judgment and condemnation.

carousing,

~ 15*“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as fit for hell[l] as you are!

and anything similar. I tell you about these things in advance—as I told you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

http://www.shangralafamilyfun.com/galf-j/jesus18.gif

Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

That is merely your own fleshly interpretation of Moses.
Even Paul tells you how to read and understand the Spirit of Torah:

1 Corinthians 9:8-10 KJV
8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. [Deuteronomy 25:4] Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

Does Elohim take care for oxen? Or does He say it altogether for our sakes?
For our sakes, no doubt, this is written!

And what else does Elohim say about oxen in and through Moshe?

Exodus 21:32 KJV
32 If the ox shall push [butt with the horns] a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.

Therefore what does Yeshua say concerning this passage? Turn the other cheek and you will be storing up treasures in heaven. But if a fatling of Bashan or a wild ox butts at you with his or her horns, and you shove back, then what have you? You have your reward. :chuckle:

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Moses, The Swords and 30 Pieces of Silver

That is merely your own fleshly interpretation of Moses.
Even Paul tells you how to read and understand the Spirit of Torah:

1 Corinthians 9:8-10 KJV
8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. [Deuteronomy 25:4] Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

Does Elohim take care for oxen? Or does He say it altogether for our sakes?
For our sakes, no doubt, this is written!

And what else does Elohim say about oxen in and through Moshe?

Exodus 21:32 KJV
32 If the ox shall push [butt with the horns] a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.

Therefore what does Yeshua say concerning this passage? Turn the other cheek and you will be storing up treasures in heaven. But if a fatling of Bashan or a wild ox butts at you with his or her horns, and you shove back, then what have you? You have your reward. :chuckle:

I missed you Daqq. I am restructuring my Galations thread and studying to finish it strong.

Is not this passage where Paul is explaining that He can take wife and is authorized to be paid as a minister of the Lord?

5 Don’t we have the right to be accompanied by a Christian wife like the other apostles, the Lord’s brothers, and Cephas?

Paul could have taken a wife and pay for his ministry, but instead he remained a traveling tent maker and had the comfort of house arrest and imprisonment.

These mentionings too are spiritual allegories for a tent maker trapped in a body of sin.

I believe he goes on to say,

15 But I have used none of these rights, and I have not written this to make it happen that way for me. For it would be better for me to die than for anyone to deprive me of my boast! 16 For if I preach the gospel, I have no reason to boast, because an obligation is placed on me. And woe to me if I do not preach the gospel! 17 For if I do this willingly, I have a reward, but if unwillingly, I am entrusted with a stewardship. 18 What then is my reward? To preach the gospel and offer it free of charge and not make full use of my authority in the gospel.

19 Although I am a free man and not anyone’s slave, I have made myself a slave to everyone, in order to win more people. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win Jews; to those under the law, like one under the law—though I myself am not under the law, to win those under the law. 21 To those who are without that law, like one without the law—not being without God’s law but within Christ’s law—to win those without the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, in order to win the weak. I have become all things to all people, so that I may by every possible means save some. 23 Now I do all this because of the gospel, so I may become a partner in its benefits.

24 Don’t you know that the runners in a stadium all race, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way to win the prize. 25 Now everyone who competes exercises self-control in everything. However, they do it to receive a crown that will fade away, but we a crown that will never fade away. 26 Therefore I do not run like one who runs aimlessly or box like one beating the air. 27 Instead, I discipline my body and bring it under strict control, so that after preaching to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

~ He indeed links to self control, but not in reference to Moses, but the Love of Christ.

Why do you insist on Moses Daqq?

Does not Christ yield eternal fruit, while Moses only bares Carnal effort?

Does not the Holy Spirit provide all that we need?

Daqq, I never teach that sin is profitable.

Please find one of my posts where I endorse sin and lack of control.

I still believe that to be yoked to Moses is adulterous towards Christ.

Do you see it?

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[daqq]

I missed you Daqq. I am restructuring my Galations thread and studying to finish it strong.

Is not this passage where Paul is explaining that He can take wife and is authorized to be paid as a minister of the Lord?

Paul could have taken a wife and pay for his ministry, but instead he remained a traveling tent maker and had the comfort of house arrest and imprisonment.

These mentionings too are spiritual allegories for a tent maker trapped in a body of sin.

I believe he goes on to say,

15 But I have used none of these rights, and I have not written this to make it happen that way for me. For it would be better for me to die than for anyone to deprive me of my boast! 16 For if I preach the gospel, I have no reason to boast, because an obligation is placed on me. And woe to me if I do not preach the gospel! 17 For if I do this willingly, I have a reward, but if unwillingly, I am entrusted with a stewardship. 18 What then is my reward? To preach the gospel and offer it free of charge and not make full use of my authority in the gospel.

19 Although I am a free man and not anyone’s slave, I have made myself a slave to everyone, in order to win more people. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win Jews; to those under the law, like one under the law—though I myself am not under the law, to win those under the law. 21 To those who are without that law, like one without the law—not being without God’s law but within Christ’s law—to win those without the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, in order to win the weak. I have become all things to all people, so that I may by every possible means save some. 23 Now I do all this because of the gospel, so I may become a partner in its benefits.

24 Don’t you know that the runners in a stadium all race, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way to win the prize. 25 Now everyone who competes exercises self-control in everything. However, they do it to receive a crown that will fade away, but we a crown that will never fade away. 26 Therefore I do not run like one who runs aimlessly or box like one beating the air. 27 Instead, I discipline my body and bring it under strict control, so that after preaching to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

~ He indeed links to self control, but not in reference to Moses, but the Love of Christ.

Why do you insist on Moses Daqq?

Does not Christ yield eternal fruit, while Moses only bares Carnal effort?

Does not the Holy Spirit provide all that we need?

Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

Why do you ignore what Paul says in what I quoted and instead accuse me of "insisting on Moses"? Who says it must be a choice between either Paul or Moses? or between Yeshua or Moses? Your teachers are the ones who taught you that, not the scripture. The passage I quoted says what it says and what you quoted beyond that has nothing to do with the point that was made. Why can you not see the point that what most assume speaks of oxen is really speaking of man according to Paul? Why do you refuse to see that right here Paul is quoting one of the most mundane passages from Torah and making it REAL, PRESENTLY ACTIVE and EFFECTIVE, and APPROPRIATE FOR DOCTRINE. Clearly it is your own paradigm which has caused you to make an unwarranted choice between the commandments of God and what or who you apparently think of as the "new God" with "new better laws" in your world. I do not know if that is true but that is the way it looks and, if so, your world is a fantasy world because God does not change. If He does not change then guess what: you never understood Torah to begin with. How then are you any different from the first century Pharisees, Sadducs, and Scribes who also saw the Torah in the same way that you do now? The only difference between you and them is that they thought they could keep it all according to the flesh while you simply discard it as having been abolished. But according to Paul the goal is for the veil to lifted from your heart, mind, and eyes when you read it; not for you to abolish it from your heart and mind. If the veil is removed in Messiah then one should begin to understand when reading it because the same will begin reading it through the filter of the lenses of the Testimony of Yeshua which expounds all of it.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Why do you ignore what Paul says in what I quoted and instead accuse me of "insisting on Moses"? Who says it must be a choice between either Paul or Moses? or between Yeshua or Moses? Your teachers are the ones who taught you that, not the scripture. The passage I quoted says what it says and what you quoted beyond that has nothing to do with the point that was made. Why can you not see the point that what most assume speaks of oxen is really speaking of man according to Paul? Why do you refuse to see that right here Paul is quoting one of the most mundane passages from Torah and making it REAL, PRESENTLY ACTIVE and EFFECTIVE, and APPROPRIATE FOR DOCTRINE. Clearly it is your own paradigm which has caused you to make an unwarranted choice between the commandments of God and what or who you apparently think of as the "new God" with "new better laws" in your world. I do not know if that is true but that is the way it looks and, if so, your world is a fantasy world because God does not change. If He does not change then guess what: you never understood Torah to begin with. How then are you any different from the first century Pharisees, Sadducs, and Scribes who also saw the Torah in the same way that you do now? The only difference between you and them is that they thought they could keep it all according to the flesh while you simply discard it as having been abolished. But according to Paul the goal is for the veil to lifted from your heart, mind, and eyes when you read it; not for you to abolish it from your heart and mind. If the veil is removed in Messiah then one should begin to understand when reading it because the same will begin reading it through the filter of the lenses of the Testimony of Yeshua which expounds all of it.

I am self taught. Jesus teaches this and Paul teaches it.

I will copy a thread where I recently addressed this.

BRB


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[Nameless.In.Grace]

Why do you ignore what Paul says in what I quoted and instead accuse me of "insisting on Moses"? Who says it must be a choice between either Paul or Moses? or between Yeshua or Moses? Your teachers are the ones who taught you that, not the scripture. The passage I quoted says what it says and what you quoted beyond that has nothing to do with the point that was made. Why can you not see the point that what most assume speaks of oxen is really speaking of man according to Paul? Why do you refuse to see that right here Paul is quoting one of the most mundane passages from Torah and making it REAL, PRESENTLY ACTIVE and EFFECTIVE, and APPROPRIATE FOR DOCTRINE. Clearly it is your own paradigm which has caused you to make an unwarranted choice between the commandments of God and what or who you apparently think of as the "new God" with "new better laws" in your world. I do not know if that is true but that is the way it looks and, if so, your world is a fantasy world because God does not change. If He does not change then guess what: you never understood Torah to begin with. How then are you any different from the first century Pharisees, Sadducs, and Scribes who also saw the Torah in the same way that you do now? The only difference between you and them is that they thought they could keep it all according to the flesh while you simply discard it as having been abolished. But according to Paul the goal is for the veil to lifted from your heart, mind, and eyes when you read it; not for you to abolish it from your heart and mind. If the veil is removed in Messiah then one should begin to understand when reading it because the same will begin reading it through the filter of the lenses of the Testimony of Yeshua which expounds all of it.

Romans 7 (HCSB)

An Illustration from Marriage

,7*Since I am speaking to those who understand law,
brothers,*are you unaware that the law has authority over
someone as long as he lives?*

............. The Law of Moses has a say over a person as long as they count themselves the ones alive and responsible for keeping it..............................

2*For example, a married woman is legally bound to her husband while he lives.

This is cut and dry. A "woman" (Eve and all her children) is born into death through the condemnation of the law, because of our propensity to sin. This is as surely as a woman is bound to her husband.

But if her husband dies, she is released from the law regarding the husband.

Is the marriage contract still binding once the husband does? Nope. What was the marriage certificate? The Law of Moses. Who made sure that the bride was punished for all her certificate infractions, Death (The Dragon)

3*So then, if she gives herself to another man while her husband is living, she will be called an adulteress.

If Eve (Humanity) is entered into marriage to God, through the Law of Sin and Death, she cannot approach God in any other manner and is held to the demands of that marital contract.

But if her husband dies, she is free from that law.

If the Husband of Law dies, she is free from all demands of that marital contract. God indeed died in the flesh, and freed all humanity from it's marriage to the Law of Sin and Death.

Then, if she gives herself to another man, she is not an adulteress.

Now that she is free, it would be wise for her to marry a wealthy Groom that encourages her freedom and well being. It would be wise that she marries out of LOVE.

So Sonnet, the genuine answer is in the relationship of mankind's choice to be married to Love and Freedom through the provision of God, or to choose Condemnation and Slavery through the effort of the flesh, per the judgment and curse of Moses.

We are not given the option to be Married to Moses and Jesus.

It's one or the other. They are two different husbands, with two different outcomes. By being married to one and then fooling around with the other, we become adulterous.

Also, to be under grace and adopt any teaching that infuses judgment, makes one a who're.

The word who're is thrown out more liberally in the Bible than a bunch of sailors telling jokes. Spoiler.... it's always about self righteous people that interfere with the Love and Timing of God.
,
How can I be so sure this is the actual answer?

Let's read contextually on....

4*Therefore, my brothers, you also were put to death*in relation to the lawthrough the crucified body of the Messiah,*so that you may belong to another—to Him who was raised from the dead—that we may bear fruit for God.*5*For when we were in the flesh, *the sinful passions operated through the law in every part of us*and bore fruit for death.*6*But now we have been released from the law, since we have died to what held us, so that we may serve in the new way*of the Spirit*and not in the old letter of the law.

............. It's impossible to miss. We either trust God completely and count ourselves grafted into His Love, or We try to muscle it out with our abusive husband that likes to point out how lacking we are and promises to completely destroy us one day.

We can't Love Jesus and be yoked to Him and fool around with Moses on the side.

Moses wins that one everytime.

We are stoned as whores.

We either sip the sweet, new wine with Jesus and enjoy that happy clean buzz, or we mess with Moses the littlest bit and find ourselves at he mercy of an abusive man that won't let us spend another second with our cherished bridegroom that would rather die than spend one moment without us.

............. It would be in our best interest to only trust the groom that is self sacrificing. Whether it is Moses, Calvin, Luther, Ellen White, or any other groom of sorta, or maybe just a fling, we are best to stick with the true Bride Groom that knows us for who we really are and loves us the same. He encourages us to grow in freedom and treat all of humanity with the same love and respect He treats us with.

................. There.... Straight answer and expanded on in context......

Also, Sarah and Hagar in Galatians make this clear with the Son of Human Effort and the Son of the Promise.

I read and Pray. I link all scripture to all scripture and claim the promise that we should let no man teach us, but trust the anointing of the Spirit of Truth.



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[Nameless.In.Grace]

Why do you ignore what Paul says in what I quoted and instead accuse me of "insisting on Moses"? Who says it must be a choice between either Paul or Moses? or between Yeshua or Moses? Your teachers are the ones who taught you that, not the scripture. The passage I quoted says what it says and what you quoted beyond that has nothing to do with the point that was made. Why can you not see the point that what most assume speaks of oxen is really speaking of man according to Paul? Why do you refuse to see that right here Paul is quoting one of the most mundane passages from Torah and making it REAL, PRESENTLY ACTIVE and EFFECTIVE, and APPROPRIATE FOR DOCTRINE. Clearly it is your own paradigm which has caused you to make an unwarranted choice between the commandments of God and what or who you apparently think of as the "new God" with "new better laws" in your world. I do not know if that is true but that is the way it looks and, if so, your world is a fantasy world because God does not change. If He does not change then guess what: you never understood Torah to begin with. How then are you any different from the first century Pharisees, Sadducs, and Scribes who also saw the Torah in the same way that you do now? The only difference between you and them is that they thought they could keep it all according to the flesh while you simply discard it as having been abolished. But according to Paul the goal is for the veil to lifted from your heart, mind, and eyes when you read it; not for you to abolish it from your heart and mind. If the veil is removed in Messiah then one should begin to understand when reading it because the same will begin reading it through the filter of the lenses of the Testimony of Yeshua which expounds all of it.

We cannot make an assumption that the commandments given to Christians by Jesus Christ are the same commandments God gave, through Moses, to Israel under the first covenant. "Commandments" in the New Testament usually means something more than the Decalogue (Ten Commandments). When John speaks of the Mosaic Law or the Ten Commandments, he always uses the Greek word for law which is "nomos." When he speaks about the teachings or instructions of Jesus in regard to loving one another he uses "entole." I John 2:3-4 is referring to the commandments of Christ Jesus:


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[Nameless.In.Grace]

Moses, The Swords and 30 Pieces of Silver

Why do you ignore what Paul says in what I quoted and instead accuse me of "insisting on Moses"? Who says it must be a choice between either Paul or Moses? or between Yeshua or Moses? Your teachers are the ones who taught you that, not the scripture. The passage I quoted says what it says and what you quoted beyond that has nothing to do with the point that was made. Why can you not see the point that what most assume speaks of oxen is really speaking of man according to Paul? Why do you refuse to see that right here Paul is quoting one of the most mundane passages from Torah and making it REAL, PRESENTLY ACTIVE and EFFECTIVE, and APPROPRIATE FOR DOCTRINE. Clearly it is your own paradigm which has caused you to make an unwarranted choice between the commandments of God and what or who you apparently think of as the "new God" with "new better laws" in your world. I do not know if that is true but that is the way it looks and, if so, your world is a fantasy world because God does not change. If He does not change then guess what: you never understood Torah to begin with. How then are you any different from the first century Pharisees, Sadducs, and Scribes who also saw the Torah in the same way that you do now? The only difference between you and them is that they thought they could keep it all according to the flesh while you simply discard it as having been abolished. But according to Paul the goal is for the veil to lifted from your heart, mind, and eyes when you read it; not for you to abolish it from your heart and mind. If the veil is removed in Messiah then one should begin to understand when reading it because the same will begin reading it through the filter of the lenses of the Testimony of Yeshua which expounds all of it.

As for all doctrine, Paul says contrary about the Laws of Moses in ALL of his works, John does as well.

To hinge theology on Moses is to deny Christ's work on the Cross.

Christ's commandment to Love is in direct opposition to "most" of the condemnation of Moses.

Paul only points out that Loving our neighbor is much more comprehensive than ALL of the commandments and carries a different Spirit than the Stone.

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[daqq]

Without the purification rites of the Jews you would not even have the first miracle at Kana; neither renewed covenant wine, neither the best wine, for the six stone cisterns of the purification rites of the Jews already had two or three baths of the water of purification in them, and they were not emptied before they were topped off to the brims. In that size of waterjar, (about thirty gallons), they would have only taken another bath or two. The water that was added was less than what was already in them; yet this wine ended up being praised by the governor of the feast as the best or better wine, (which account is related to Luke 5:39). Thus, in the very first miracle of Yeshua concerning wines, which represent covenants, the two covenants are MIXED by way of the analogy. There are hundreds of little things like these which show how incorrect you are. The real problem is that the carnal man is afraid of the Torah, afraid of dying, having no faith that he can do all things through Messiah who strengthens him, (by his Testimony), cowering and drawing back in fear, (Hebrews 10:38-39 is related), believing neither the full Testimony of Yeshua nor Paul. The carnal man simply is not willing to undergo the immersion into Torah so that he might be brought out from under it: therefore he or she is not actually "dead to the law" but rather simply telling himself that he is, and it still holds sway over you because you fear it, and you run from it. If Torah is a Rod of Iron in my hand then I am no longer under it, (and I rule the "heathen" in my land by it and the Testimony of Yeshua; as the vessels of a potter they are shattered). And, by the way, at the end of Romans 7 Paul clearly tells you that with the mind he serves the Torah of Elohim, (which is Horeb the Mount of Elohim and of above), but with the flesh the Torah of sin, (which is Sinai and of below). So he still served both and that was also in accordance with the Testimony of Yeshua; for you cannot pluck out your own offensive right eye, or cut off your own offensive right hand, or cut off a foot always running swiftly into mischief, without applying the Torah of sin and mortification, (death), against that "member" of your own household, (father divided against son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law, which is yet another allegory for your members of your house-body-temple). But I suppose you can start literally plucking and cutting off limbs with your sword if you want to follow Yeshua according to your fleshly and physical understandings: however, you will only be doing that once with each member, and then they will be no more; for their worm will die, and their fire will be quenched. Otherwise you are simply cherry picking what you want to believe from the scripture and ignoring the rest because Yeshua also says that he came to send a sword into your land. The sword did not change between Moshe and Messiah because Moshe prophesies concerning Messiah. If you detach one from the other you know neither.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Moses, The Swords and 30 Pieces of Silver

Without the purification rites of the Jews you would not even have the first miracle at Kana; neither renewed covenant wine, neither the best wine, for the six stone cisterns of the purification rites of the Jews already had two or three baths of the water of purification in them, and they were not emptied before they were topped off to the brims. In that size of waterjar, (about thirty gallons), they would have only taken another bath or two. The water that was added was less than what was already in them; yet this wine ended up being praised by the governor of the feast as the best or better wine, (which account is related to Luke 5:39). Thus, in the very first miracle of Yeshua concerning wines, which represent covenants, the two covenants are MIXED by way of the analogy. There are hundreds of little things like these which show how incorrect you are. The real problem is that the carnal man is afraid of the Torah, afraid of dying, having no faith that he can do all things through Messiah who strengthens him, (by his Testimony), cowering and drawing back in fear, (Hebrews 10:38-39 is related), believing neither the full Testimony of Yeshua nor Paul. The carnal man simply is not willing to undergo the immersion into Torah so that he might be brought out from under it: therefore he or she is not actually "dead to the law" but rather simply telling himself that he is, and it still holds sway over you because you fear it, and you run from it. If Torah is a Rod of Iron in my hand then I am no longer under it, (and I rule the "heathen" in my land by it and the Testimony of Yeshua; as the vessels of a potter they are shattered). And, by the way, at the end of Romans 7 Paul clearly tells you that with the mind he serves the Torah of Elohim, (which is Horeb the Mount of Elohim and of above), but with the flesh the Torah of sin, (which is Sinai and of below). So he still served both and that was also in accordance with the Testimony of Yeshua; for you cannot pluck out your own offensive right eye, or cut off your own offensive right hand, or cut off a foot always running swiftly into mischief, without applying the Torah of sin and mortification, (death), against that "member" of your own household, (father divided against son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law, which is yet another allegory for your members of your house-body-temple). But I suppose you can start literally plucking and cutting off limbs with your sword if you want to follow Yeshua according to your fleshly and physical understandings: however, you will only be doing that once with each member, and then they will be no more; for their worm will die, and their fire will be quenched. Otherwise you are simply cherry picking what you want to believe from the scripture and ignoring the rest because Yeshua also says that he came to send a sword into your land. The sword did not change between Moshe and Messiah because Moshe prophesies concerning Messiah. If you detach one from the other you know neither.

Daqq,

I could write books to you, but you would have brilliant replies as always.

Once upon a time, a women was caught in adulatory.

Three images arose from this.

.................
God

The condemned

And the Accuser
.................

Which one are you?
.................

This is from the same book and author which says "about sin, because they do not believe."

And again, "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not only for ours, but also for those of the whole world. "

Daqq,

Knowledge is beautiful, but the gospel is simple.

Why must you rebuild what He tore down by fulfilling and signing with Devine blood?


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[Nameless.In.Grace]

Any other readers of this OP?


Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

 

[jamie]

Moses is the sword of condemnation and Jesus is the Sword of Grace. One cleaves flesh, while the other heals the soul

Moses did what Christ instructed him to do. In finding fault with Moses your are finding fault with Christ.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Moses did what Christ instructed him to do. In finding fault with Moses your are finding fault with Christ.

Moses is the Hebrew way of saying law.


Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

 

[jamie]

Moses is the Hebrew way of saying law.

Was it a good law for the time before the Son?