Monergism vs Synergism

[Man.0]

Monergism 'is the position in Christian theology that God, through the Holy Spirit, works to bring about the salvation of an individual through spiritual regeneration, irrespective of the individual's cooperation.'(Source: Wikipedia)

Synergism 'The doctrine that individual salvation is achieved through a combination of human will and divine grace.' (Source: The Free Dictionary)


Are you a Mongergist or a Synergist? Which view is correct?

 

[CherubRam]

Monergism 'is the position in Christian theology that God, through the Holy Spirit, works to bring about the salvation of an individual through spiritual regeneration, irrespective of the individual's cooperation.'(Source: Wikipedia)

Synergism 'The doctrine that individual salvation is achieved through a combination of human will and divine grace.' (Source: The Free Dictionary)


Are you a Mongergist or a Synergist? Which view is correct?

Because mankind has freewill "Synergism" is the more correct answer.

 

[flintstoned]

Because mankind has freewill "Synergism" is the more correct answer.

Where does the bible say that we have free will? Sure, we can make "choices" but that is not the same thing as free will. Can you choose to be righteous of your own will? Can you be perfect of your own will? Are you able to save yourself of your own will? Can you have access to things of the spirit of your own free will (without the Holy Spirit first having done a work on your heart)?

God is the author (initiator) and finisher of our faith. Without Him, we can do nothing. He chose us......we did not choose him. It requires a work of the Holy Spirit for us to be able to even believe with our hearts. We respond as a consequence of God's work in us, resulting in our belief/faith.

Many try to claim the exact opposite, that they are saved because God responded to the "belief" they claimed to generate of their own free will (without a work of the Holy Spirit). That their salvation was dependent on something they had to do (believe), and God would only act in response. This is not biblical.

 

[CherubRam]

Where does the bible say that we have free will? Sure, we can make "choices" but that is not the same thing as free will. Can you choose to be righteous of your own will? Can you be perfect of your own will? Are you able to save yourself of your own will? Can you have access to things of the spirit of your own free will (without the Holy Spirit first having done a work on your heart)?

God is the author (initiator) and finisher of our faith. Without Him, we can do nothing. He chose us......we did not choose him. It requires a work of the Holy Spirit for us to be able to even believe with our hearts. We respond as a consequence of God's work in us, resulting in our belief/faith.

Many try to claim the exact opposite, that they are saved because God responded to the "belief" they claimed to generate of their own free will (without a work of the Holy Spirit). That their salvation was dependent on something they had to do (believe), and God would only act in response. This is not biblical.

I said "most correct." Life is full of choices. Hopefully God is at work in our lives to help guide us.
Joshua 24:15. And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve;

 

[Shasta]

Where does the bible say that we have free will? Sure, we can make "choices" but that is not the same thing as free will. Can you choose to be righteous of your own will? Can you be perfect of your own will? Are you able to save yourself of your own will? Can you have access to things of the spirit of your own free will (without the Holy Spirit first having done a work on your heart)?

God is the author (initiator) and finisher of our faith. Without Him, we can do nothing. He chose us......we did not choose him. It requires a work of the Holy Spirit for us to be able to even believe with our hearts. We respond as a consequence of God's work in us, resulting in our belief/faith.

Many try to claim the exact opposite, that they are saved because God responded to the "belief" they claimed to generate of their own free will (without a work of the Holy Spirit). That their salvation was dependent on something they had to do (believe), and God would only act in response. This is not biblical.

For the first three to four centuries orthodox Christian leaders taught that humans have been granted the ability to choose to rebel against God or surrender their lives to Him. They coined the term "free will" not to imply that man can in any way earn salvation, for they renounced that idea but simply to say man possessed volition because he had been made in the image of God and that, as a consequence, it had been granted to him.

"Free will" does not mean we will come to Christ without the influence of the Holy Spirit. It means we can resist, quench and grieve the Spirit or we can yield to His influence.

 

[Shasta]

Every time God uses conditional statements starting with "IF" whether it is a promise of reward for obedience or threat of judgement for disobedience, the assumption is that man can either refuse or submit to God's propositions. When you think about it, most of the Bible consists of such Divine communications.

To get around the implications of this language we have to import presuppositions from other systems of thought - which is exactly what Calvin did. He got the concept from Augustine who got it from Gnosticism. This historical fact that has been noted for centuries.

 

[patrick jane]

i'm a monsynergist

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Monergism 'is the position in Christian theology that God, through the Holy Spirit, works to bring about the salvation of an individual through spiritual regeneration, irrespective of the individual's cooperation.'(Source: Wikipedia)

Well known Calvinist author R.C. Sproul says the following:

"When the term 'monergism' is linked with the word 'regeneration' the phrase describes an action by which God the Holy Spirit works on a human being without that person's assistance or cooperation".​

According to the Calvinists being made alive spiritually or being regenerated happens prior to one believing. Here is how Sproul explains that:

"When speaking of the order of salvation (ordo salutis), Reformed theology always and everywhere insists that regeneration precedes faith. Regeneration precedes faith because it is a necessary condition for faith...when Reformed theology says regeneration precedes faith, it is speaking in terms of logical priority, not temporal priority. We cannot exercise saving faith until we have been regenerated, so we say that faith is dependent on regeneration, not regeneration on faith."​

According to Sproul one must be regenerated or be made spiritually alive before he can believe the gospel. However, the following words of the Apostle John demonstrates that spiritual life comes as a result of believing:

"Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:30-31).​

This in itself thoroughly destroys the idea that one is made alive spiritually or regenerated before coming to faith.

 

[CherubRam]

i'm a monsynergist

Then do you believe man has no choice but to do evil?

 

[Brother Ducky]

Well known Calvinist author R.C. Sproul says the following:

"When the term 'monergism' is linked with the word 'regeneration' the phrase describes an action by which God the Holy Spirit works on a human being without that person's assistance or cooperation".​

According to the Calvinists being made alive spiritually or being regenerated happens prior to one believing. Here is how Sproul explains that:

"When speaking of the order of salvation (ordo salutis), Reformed theology always and everywhere insists that regeneration precedes faith. Regeneration precedes faith because it is a necessary condition for faith...when Reformed theology says regeneration precedes faith, it is speaking in terms of logical priority, not temporal priority. We cannot exercise saving faith until we have been regenerated, so we say that faith is dependent on regeneration, not regeneration on faith."​

According to Sproul one must be regenerated or be made spiritually alive before he can believe the gospel. However, the following words of the Apostle John demonstrates that spiritual life comes as a result of believing:

"Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:30-31).​

This in itself thoroughly destroys the idea that one is made alive spiritually or regenerated before coming to faith.

Is your faith before regeneration logical or temporal?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Is your faith before regeneration logical or temporal?

My faith which came prior to my receiving life is best described in this way:

"And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God" (1 Cor.2:4-5).​

 

[patrick jane]

Then do you believe man has no choice but to do evil?

yes.
pretty much. to what degree is the difference. anything can be justified in the mind of one or many -

 

[Shasta]

God commands men to believe.

23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us (I John 3:23)

Commands are addressed to the will. It would be irrational to command a person in a deep coma to do anything since he would not possess the ability to comply. Calvin/Augustine taught "total depravity" which many people mistakenly think means sinful completely when in their pre-deterministic theology it really means "total inability."

Next, God not only commands men He commands ALL men:

The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, (Acts 17:30)

It would have been better for monergism's case if this scripture had said "now he commands the elect everywhere to repent" for, since God is "sovereign," (in the reformed sense) His commands must necessarily be obeyed but here a divine command issued to ALL people is not obeyed by the majority of them.

 

[PureX]

Are you a Mongergist or a Synergist? Which view is correct?

Monergism is a moot concept. If it's true, it has nothing to do with us. And if it's not true, it has nothing to do with us.

On the other hand, if synergism is true, then we need to pay heed to it, and even if it's not true, we ought to live like it is, just for our own well-being if for no other reason.

 

[Brother Ducky]

My faith which came prior to my receiving life is best described in this way:

"And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God" (1 Cor.2:4-5).​

I assume that this means there is a temporal order in place; first faith and then regeneration. If so, how much time elapsed between your having faith and your regeneration? How much time could possibly elapse between the two events? Could one die with faith and no regeneration?

 

[CherubRam]

yes.
pretty much. to what degree is the difference. anything can be justified in the mind of one or many -

Then if mankind does not have freewill, then mankind is not responsible for their actions. Think about that!

 

[Shasta]

Then if mankind does not have freewill, then mankind is not responsible for their actions. Think about that!

The highly esteemed apologist and author of the Second Century, Justin Martyr agrees with you

In the beginning He made the human race with the power of thought and of choosing the truth and doing right, so that all men are without excuse before God; for they have been born rational and contemplative. Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.172

...And again, unless the human race has the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actions, of whatever kind they be. But that it is by free choice they both walk uprightly and stumble, we thus demonstrate. Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.177

This was the unanimous opinion of orthodox teachers and theologians for the first 400 years of the Christianity. They renounced the idea of "inability" as pagan and alien to the Christian Faith. "Inability" which which Calvin called "total depravity" was smuggled into the Church by Augustine Bishop of Hippo as a result of his mistranslation of scripture in the Latin Vulgate.

 

[Man.0]

The highly esteemed apologist and author of the Second Century, Justin Martyr agrees with you

Luke 16:15

...And again, unless the human race has the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actions, of whatever kind they be. But that it is by free choice they both walk uprightly and stumble, we thus demonstrate. Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.177

Notice that he says 'free choice', and not 'free will'.

 

[CherubRam]

Luke 16:15
Notice that he says 'free choice', and not 'free will'.

Free will is free choice. Same thing.

 

[CherubRam]

The highly esteemed apologist and author of the Second Century, Justin Martyr agrees with you

In the beginning He made the human race with the power of thought and of choosing the truth and doing right, so that all men are without excuse before God; for they have been born rational and contemplative. Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.172

...And again, unless the human race has the power of avoiding evil and choosing good by free choice, they are not accountable for their actions, of whatever kind they be. But that it is by free choice they both walk uprightly and stumble, we thus demonstrate. Justin Martyr (A.D. 160) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.1 pg.177

This was the unanimous opinion of orthodox teachers and theologians for the first 400 years of the Christianity. They renounced the idea of "inability" as pagan and alien to the Christian Faith. "Inability" which which Calvin called "total depravity" was smuggled into the Church by Augustine Bishop of Hippo as a result of his mistranslation of scripture in the Latin Vulgate.

Thanks for the reply. Do you happen to know where the mistranslation of scripture in the Latin Vulgate is?