MAD's, 2P2P, and Zionists

J

jsanford108

New member
When in discussions or debates, I often find opposing views that I have not often heard. While I have heard of MAD's and Zionists, I have never really studied their views. Sure, one can google the names to see a very basic definition, but I find that it is always lacking the depth necessary for interaction.

So, if any Madists, 2P2P's, or Zionists would care to tell me what you believe. What doctrines do you hold, and what doctrines do you reject?

It is my honest intention to know the views and opinions held by these, as I am somewhat ignorant on their doctrines, and such ignorance can lead to miscommunication and issues when having discussions/debates.

Thank you in advance for educating me. And if you are not one of the three mentioned, please do not take this as an opportunity to debate them. This thread is meant for education on their views, not others'.


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Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Greetings jsanford!

The words "Mid-Acts Dispensationalism" refers to a community of believers who teach that the present "dispensation of grace" started with Paul during the middle of the Acts period (some say Acts 9 and others say Acts 13).

Besides that the original teaching of Mid-Acts basically mirrors the teachings of the Acts 2 Dispensationalists. That includes, among other things, salvation by grace apart from works and OSAS.

Also, MAD believes that at the present time the nation of Israel (who in the OT was the LORD's special people) has been temporarily cast aside as the LORD's agent upon the earth and now it is the Body of Christ which is His agent.

After those in the Body of Christ will be caught up to meet the Lord Jesus in the air then the nation of Israel will be restored to being the Lord's agent on the earth.

I hope that helps!
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
Greetings jsanford!

The words "Mid-Acts Dispensationalism" refers to a community of believers who teach that the present "dispensation of grace" started with Paul during the middle of the Acts period (some say Acts 9 and others say Acts 13).

Besides that the original teaching of Mid-Acts basically mirrors the teachings of the Acts 2 Dispensationalists. That includes, among other things, salvation by grace apart from works and OSAS.

Also, MAD believes that at the present time the nation of Israel (who in the OT was the LORD's special people) has been temporarily cast aside as the LORD's agent upon the earth and now it is the Body of Christ which is His agent.

After those in the Body of Christ will be caught up to meet the Lord Jesus in the air then the nation of Israel will be restored to being the Lord's agent on the earth.

I hope that helps!
Click to expand...

Mid-acts people are unwittingly laying the foundation for their own demise in the end-time. In the last days the church will not be raptured out and Israel will regain her lost supremacy and come to rule the earth. The temple will be rebuilt and it will be commanded that the whole world keep or follow the law of Moses. The gospel of grace and those who preach it will be blotted out from the earth. It may seem that the grace Christians are in the majority today but when these things happen they will abandon the gospel to worship mother Jerusalem. Israel has hated grace and Christ from day one and nothing has changed in 2000 years. There is more hope of Calvinists preaching the gospel in the last days than a duped dispensational.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Epoisses said:
Mid-acts people are unwittingly laying the foundation for their own demise in the end-time. In the last days the church will not be raptured out and Israel will regain her lost supremacy and come to rule the earth. The temple will be rebuilt and it will be commanded that the whole world keep or follow the law of Moses. The gospel of grace and those who preach it will be blotted out from the earth. It may seem that the grace Christians are in the majority today but when these things happen they will abandon the gospel to worship mother Jerusalem. Israel has hated grace and Christ from day one and nothing has changed in 2000 years. There is more hope of Calvinists preaching the gospel in the last days than a duped dispensational.
Click to expand...


I'm sure many D'ists have preached the Gospel , but whether their view of the Bible holds together is a completely
different question.

Welcome JSanford, I suppose you know by now that we share the same last name. You will want to read up on 2P2P which is a doctrine named by Dallas Sem's Ryrie back in the 60s. Two peoples, two programs. Incoherent Bible, even with lots of strained human mental effort!
 
Tambora

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
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jsanford108 said:
When in discussions or debates, I often find opposing views that I have not often heard. While I have heard of MAD's and Zionists, I have never really studied their views. Sure, one can google the names to see a very basic definition, but I find that it is always lacking the depth necessary for interaction.

So, if any Madists, 2P2P's, or Zionists would care to tell me what you believe. What doctrines do you hold, and what doctrines do you reject?

It is my honest intention to know the views and opinions held by these, as I am somewhat ignorant on their doctrines, and such ignorance can lead to miscommunication and issues when having discussions/debates.

Thank you in advance for educating me. And if you are not one of the three mentioned, please do not take this as an opportunity to debate them. This thread is meant for education on their views, not others'.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
Click to expand...

Already have a nice thread explaining MAD.

[h=2]For Sincere Inquisitors ONLY: MAD Explained[/h]http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?58704-For-Sincere-Inquisitors-ONLY-MAD-Explained
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Epoisses said:
In the last days the church will not be raptured out and Israel will regain her lost supremacy and come to rule the earth. The temple will be rebuilt and it will be commanded that the whole world keep or follow the law of Moses.
Click to expand...

In the OT times the children of Israel are described this way:

"For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth" (Deut.7:6).​

However, during the present time the only special people to the LORD are the members of the Body of Christ, and here the Jews and the Gentiles are on the same level (Gal.3:27-28).

Therefore, before the Israelites can regain their previous position as above all people in the eyes of the Lord then the Body of Christ must be taken out of the way. And that will happen here:

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess.4:16-17).​
 
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Epoisses

Epoisses

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
In the OT times the children of Israel are described this way:

"For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth" (Deut.7:6).​

However, during the present time the only special people to the LORD are the members of the Body of Christ, and here the Jews and the Gentiles are on the same level (Gal.3:27-28).

Therefore, before the Israelites can regain their previous position as above all people in the eyes of the Lord then the Body of Christ must be taken out of the way. And that will happen here:

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess.4:16-17).​
Click to expand...

How many Israelites preach the gospel of God's grace and love? How about zero!
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Epoisses said:
How many Israelites in Israel are preaching the gospel and winning souls to Christ?
Click to expand...

As I said earlier, at the present time there are no special people unto the Lord except for those in the Body of Christ. And in the Body there is no distinction between Gentiles and Jews. But after the members of the Body of Christ will be "caught up" to meet the Lord Jesus in the air then the Jews will regain their previous position as the LORD's special people, above all the people on the face of the earth.
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
As I said earlier, at the present time there are no special people unto the Lord except for those in the Body of Christ. And in the Body there is no distinction between Gentiles and Jews. But after the members of the Body of Christ will be "caught up" to meet the Lord Jesus in the air then the Jews will regain their previous position as the LORD's special people, above all the people on the face of the earth.
Click to expand...

When have the people of God ever escaped persecution? Did God wisk away all the saints who burnt at the stake for defying the Catholic church. Your church has lied to you and is fallen away from Christ. You will be in the tribulation with everyone else. We'll see if you have faith in those days.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Epoisses said:
When have the people of God ever escaped persecution?
Click to expand...

That will happen in the future:

"Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David...I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime" (2 Sam.7:8,10).​

Epoisses said:
Your church has lied to you and is fallen away from Christ. You will be in the tribulation with everyone else. We'll see if you have faith in those days.
Click to expand...

Since you think you know so much about when the saints will be caught up to be with the Lord please answer a question for me in regard to what is in "bold" in this passage:

"But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Mt.24:37-41).​

Are the ones who will be "taken" the same ones who will be "caught up" to meet the Lord Jesus in the air?

Thanks!
 
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Epoisses

Epoisses

New member
Jesus gave the parable of the fig tree in Matt. 24 so that when see all the end-time events fulfilled his coming will be near not before.

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Matt. 24:32,33

'This generation' is the last generation that will be alive before the 2nd coming.
 
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