ECT MAD 3: Prophecy and mystery are different, Acts 3, Rom 16

[Interplanner]

Basic teachings of Mid Acts Dispensational right division
– Jesus, in his earthly ministry, ministered to the circumcision. (Rom 15:8, see here)
– [bold]The mystery of Christ was first revealed to Paul[/bold] (Col 1:25-26, 1 Tim 1:16, and here)
– Prophecy and mystery are different (Acts 3:19-21 vs Rom 16:25)
– Peter and Paul taught different messages (Peter prophecy, and Paul mystery: See here)
– Prophecy has been interrupted. (See here)
– The gospel of the kingdom is not the gospel of the grace of God (See here and here)
– Israel’s Church and the Church, the body of Christ, are different. (See here)



Not exactly the clearest of statements.

As for Acts 3:19, it sounds like we do have the same thing. What D'ism calls the mystery again (see MAD 2) is not those things true in the Gospel, but an interjection into time because of how Israel responded to the 'earthly kingdom' offer. D'ism thinks the restoration of v21 is a Judaistic theocracy in Judea. So naturally, they would think that's what got postponed by the mystery interjection (the Christian church, AKA, the other plan).

But we don't know what length of time 'he must remain' and there's the real problem. The NIV is not so helpful here as this verb is about permission to be accepted. Peter is really saying Christ is the one human whom heaven can receive back into its presence because of his righteous life. Heaven has to accept him, and that is done for our benefit.

The restoration is of everything, which is the Isaianic vision--more than just Israel--which is also the case in 2 Peter 3 (same person speaking) and saying nothing about a theocracy for Judaism.

as for Rom 16, first notice that the mystery is not exactly a surprise out of nowhere. This kind of hiddenness is like that of the veil in 2 Cor 3-5. The clues are there if you know what to look for. The D'ist idea of the mystery is that the interjection (not the truth in the Gospel about inheritance, membership, fellowship) is out of nowhere. No one knew that God was going to stop time, go in another direction for X000 years. That is the sense in D'ism.

This is why the mystery is taught through the prophetic writings, v26. It's there, but it takes explaining. This is nothing other than clarifying it is not in Judaism nor through Judaism. It is true in the Gospel, in Christ.

But it is not just teaching or doctrinaire. Paul is referring to the incoming Gentiles here. That historic fact of incoming Gentiles is a 'deigma' or divine order or imperial order; there is no stopping it. This was true in a microcosm way in the Roman church. Jews were evicted from Rome by Claudius, Acts 18. While they were gone the Gentiles ran the church and did fine. When the Jews came back, they found themselves equals rather than leaders. That is a microcosm for all churches in Paul's thinking.

 

[tetelestai]

The mystery of Christ was first revealed to Paul

Despite what Dispies claim, the mysteries kept secret since the foundation of the world were first preached by Jesus, not Paul.

(Matt 13:35) That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

 

[Danoh]

Despite what Dispies claim, the mysteries kept secret since the foundation of the world were first preached by Jesus, not Paul.

(Matt 13:35) That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Your obviously poor awareness of the older OT on that passage is...obvious.

Matthew thru John being "the culmination" of Old Testament ground, and yet, at the same time, under the principle that a testament is a force only after men are dead.

 

[Interplanner]

As expected I know of no D'ist who is aware that the things promised arrived in Christ, making the question of an interjection or interruption a MOOT POINT. As long it uses the sense of 'out of nowhere' D'ism cannot understand what the NT mystery is.

 

[Danoh]

As expected I know of no D'ist who is aware that the things promised arrived in Christ, making the question of an interjection or interruption a MOOT POINT. As long it uses the sense of 'out of nowhere' D'ism cannot understand what the NT mystery is.

You have a point there - we sure do have a problem embracing your reasoning - something about our actually studying out the passages; allowing the passages to render the intended sense of other passages.

It has clouded our ability to blindly buy into your endless reasoning into the passages.

You are system first, interpretation from it, through and through.

You are simply blind to that.

You went off to school to learn what to read into a thing.

You did NOT learn FIRST how to approach a passage objectively.

In fact, throughout the years, I have found that such is also the case even with MADS here and there, where I have found that one or another of them and I have each arrived at a different understanding of one thing or another - a departure from basic principles evident within their very assertions.

And that is them. They at least have the road map down, more or less.

Whereas you - not only do you deny that God is a God of order, but to that you add your every word "about" MAD the moot point of one long since rendered mute by your own reasonings "about" a thing.

You can teach us nothing. You are nothing more than an expert at being an amateur.

A lazy one at that. As all those who over rely on books always prove to be.

God forbid you actually post passages, let alone; towards their actual, mutual exploration - yours is blah, blah, blah...

 

[Interplanner]

Unless the response is about a particular, exact point, the post is worthless. Start with the first item that is question, got it?

The paragraph replied to above is about the list in eph 3:5. Three things are said to be fulfilled in the Gospel. But in D'ism, they are not even currently fulfilled! So how could they possibly be fulfilled in the Gospel event! 2P2P is not on the same page and not even in the same book.

 

[Danoh]

Unless the response is about a particular, exact point, the post is worthless. Start with the first item that is question, got it?

The paragraph replied to above is about the list in eph 3:5. Three things are said to be fulfilled in the Gospel. But in D'ism, they are not even currently fulfilled! So how could they possibly be fulfilled in the Gospel event! 2P2P is not on the same page and not even in the same book.

So prove Dispensationalism is wrong about this. All you ever do is post what you have concluded the passages are talking about.

Fact is, Ephesians two is based on Romans 1:18-3:30.

That part of Ephesians 2 referring to the commonwealth of Israel is part of that passage's time past, and has stopped at Romans 3:20.

There is no commonwealth of Israel at this point in all that - for the same reason that there is no Jew nor Gentile at that point - because all - both them that were nigh, and ye which in time past were far off - have been concluded under sin that He might have mercy on all.

:doh:

 

[patrick jane]

Despite what Dispies claim, the mysteries kept secret since the foundation of the world were first preached by Jesus, not Paul.

(Matt 13:35) That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Nope, it's obvious when reading that verse that it's a future event

 

[Interplanner]

D'ism's mistakes about Eph 2-3:
1, it doesn't think the realization is current! It is for some other distant time period. All because "Israel" (and technical terms about Israel's promises) got in there. This is 'system-imposing' at its worst.
2, "no commonwealth of Israel at this time." What does that have to do with anything? The passage is about all the things the nations lacked before the Gospel, which they can now enjoy in the Gospel. All meant to form one new man, one living growing temple. D'ism apparently thinks such 'commonwealth' items are on hold for later because D'ism is 2P2p which is not in the Bible. It is imposed on it to 'help' the Bible make sense, because it won't listen to what happened in the DofJ and how that objective information underwrites the deity of Christ.

 

[Interplanner]

Nope, it's obvious when reading that verse that it's a future event

Uhh, that's Christ quoting it about himself...