Love as salvation evidence

ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

New member
1 John 4:7 (NKJV)
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

I wouldn't put my assurance of salvation on that verse because some people appear to love when their love is not 1 Corinthians 13 love. I have seen people described as knowing love when they are the opposite of Paul's definition. You cannot be a schemer and a gossip and a liar and know true love. People easily deceive themselves.

You can care about abused women and adultery and children in wrecked homes etc... (Delivering my body to be burnt) and still not know real godly love.
 
B

bybee

New member
ClimateSanity said:
1 John 4:7 (NKJV)
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

I wouldn't put my assurance of salvation on that verse because some people appear to love when their love is not 1 Corinthians 13 love. I have seen people described as knowing love when they are the opposite of Paul's definition. You cannot be a schemer and a gossip and a liar and know true love. People easily deceive themselves.
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Only God knows the heart. It is not for us to judge the worth of each other.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
ClimateSanity said:
1 John 4:7 (NKJV)
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

I wouldn't put my assurance of salvation on that verse because some people appear to love when their love is not 1 Corinthians 13 love. I have seen people described as knowing love when they are the opposite of Paul's definition. You cannot be a schemer and a gossip and a liar and know true love. People easily deceive themselves.

You can care about abused women and adultery and children in wrecked homes etc... (Delivering my body to be burnt) and still not know real godly love.
Click to expand...

True.

Whatever kind of love people can muster up never comes close to the love of God. But, it's the love of God that is shed abroad on our hearts by the Holy Spirit (when we believe) that manifests itself through us. It is never this white wash we see that's been painted on for others to see.

Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.​

So, whenever you see people claiming they love and that "love" proves they are saved....don't believe them. True believers don't take credit for the fruit of the Holy Spirit...they won't be boasting at all.
 
D

Danoh

New member
ClimateSanity said:
1 John 4:7 (NKJV)
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

I wouldn't put my assurance of salvation on that verse because some people appear to love when their love is not 1 Corinthians 13 love. I have seen people described as knowing love when they are the opposite of Paul's definition. You cannot be a schemer and a gossip and a liar and know true love. People easily deceive themselves.

You can care about abused women and adultery and children in wrecked homes etc... (Delivering my body to be burnt) and still not know real godly love.
Click to expand...

KJV 1Jn 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

He is basically reminding them to be toward one another who God has called them to be toward one another as His - to love one another.

Why?

Because love is of God and they are of God. Thus, they ought to love one another just as He loved them.

Case in point...

1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

Or, as Paul said to the Galatians...

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

In other words, there is simply no room in the Christian walk for animosity towards others, or any other notions of the fleshly mind that the fleshly mind comes up with and would have us believe.

I remember once all of a sudden having some odd, out of nowhere, traumatic flashback from some past event.

I'm going through it; and therefore buying into it, when it dawns on me "wait a minute - this is no longer who I am in Christ! This is absolute nonsense! I've been freed from the carnal mind! I've been made complete in Christ! I'm this in Him! I'm that in Him!" and so on...

And just like that, this Pauline, spiritual self-counseling that is so built into the Scripture, delivered me from that nonsense of the fleshly mind, right then and there.

Well, John is doing something like that - he is focusing them on who they are with one another, who they can be with one another because they are of God.

Not in order to be of God. Rather, because they are of God.

He is describing who they can be towards one another because of who God has made them be in His Son, redemptively...

1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

Be who ye are, beloved!

Love one another!

Rejoice in its opportunity!

What opportunity?

The same one the Lord saw when He was despised by those He died in His love for them even as they despised Him!

1Jn 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 4:11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
 
ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

New member
Bradley D said:
In the end God will be the judge of those who truly obeyed the two Great Commandments.
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Nobody is disputing that.

This thread is for those who presumptively judge themselves or others as saved based on their perception of how well they love.

It is also a thread that hopes to prevent others from teaching a false idea of salvation.
 
R

RBBI

New member
Thought to ponder.....God's Spirit IS love. God's love, therefore, is not a feel good emotion, like man professes to be love, it's a SPIRIT. When Yeshua said ye can do NOTHING without Me, He meant it; that includes to love. We even need His Spirit to love HIM with. Peace
 
theophilus

theophilus

Well-known member
serpentdove said:
Yes. Their love for their brethren shows (1 Jn 3:14) :straight: or their horns eventually show (Mt 7:20). :reals:

The devil's children do not love (Jn 8:44).
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My previous post was SUPPOSED to quote John 7:24.

Maybe I'm getting dyslexic in my old age.

:eek:
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
RBBI said:
Thought to ponder.....God's Spirit IS love. God's love, therefore, is not a feel good emotion, like man professes to be love, it's a SPIRIT. When Yeshua said ye can do NOTHING without Me, He meant it; that includes to love. We even need His Spirit to love HIM with. Peace
Click to expand...

Which is an excellent point. In fact, note how love is the "fruit of the Spirit"....it's HIS.
Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.​

And note the attributes of love. Do we EVER see any of these manifest by the people here on this forum?

I say very rarely, if at all.

The reason is that it doesn't come from us. We always get in the way. It's only in the quiet moments of life....when we don't even realize it's being manifest through us.

The longsuffering of a mother as she sits at the bedside of her sick child. The patience of a father when he's exhausted after working all day, but still takes the time to read a bedtime story. How can anyone boast in what God does without our even realizing it? If our left hand sees and boasts in what the right hand is doing then there's something amiss.


1 Cor. 13
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
​

When someone is so presumptuous as to say, "You're being unkind and that isn't being a good Christian", you can be sure they're expecting you to play the hypocrite with them. ;)
 
Bradley D

Bradley D

Well-known member
You can care about abused women and adultery and children in wrecked homes etc... (Delivering my body to be burnt) and still not know real godly love.
Click to expand...

As Paul said in 1 Corinthians 1 if I "do not have love, I am nothing (v.2)." Paul said some people do good things to "boast" (v.3). I must always examine my reasons for doing something for others. To make it is done for the right, in other words for God's glory.

I do not judge other peoples motives (Luke 6:37). I'm busy enough keeping track of mine.
 
B

Ben Masada

New member
ClimateSanity said:
1 John 4:7 (NKJV)
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

I wouldn't put my assurance of salvation on that verse because some people appear to love when their love is not 1 Corinthians 13 love. I have seen people described as knowing love when they are the opposite of Paul's definition. You cannot be a schemer and a gossip and a liar and know true love. People easily deceive themselves.

You can care about abused women and adultery and children in wrecked homes etc... (Delivering my body to be burnt) and still not know real godly love.
Click to expand...

Sorry CS, but that's not true. Love is rather the evidence that we obey the Lord. That's how we prove our love for the Most High. As an evidence found in your own Bible, the NT, you can understand this concept much better if you read John 14:21. "He that has my commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves me."
 
D

Danoh

New member
Ben Masada said:
Sorry CS, but that's not true. Love is rather the evidence that we obey the Lord's. That's how we prove our love for the Most High. As an evidence found in your own Bible, the NT, you can understand this concept much better if you read John 14:21. "He that has my commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves me."
Click to expand...

Actually, He was making the burden that the Law was, Acts 15:10, even more burdensome.

"That sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful," Romans 7:13.

Why? Towards what intent?

That after His resurrection Israel might turn to Him for deliverance in their awareness of their utter hopelessness in themselves, Romans 10.

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 3:16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
 
ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

New member
glorydaz said:
Which is an excellent point. In fact, note how love is the "fruit of the Spirit"....it's HIS.
Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.​

And note the attributes of love. Do we EVER see any of these manifest by the people here on this forum?

I say very rarely, if at all.

The reason is that it doesn't come from us. We always get in the way. It's only in the quiet moments of life....when we don't even realize it's being manifest through us.

The longsuffering of a mother as she sits at the bedside of her sick child. The patience of a father when he's exhausted after working all day, but still takes the time to read a bedtime story. How can anyone boast in what God does without our even realizing it? If our left hand sees and boasts in what the right hand is doing then there's something amiss.


1 Cor. 13
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
​

When someone is so presumptuous as to say, "You're being unkind and that isn't being a good Christian", you can be sure they're expecting you to play the hypocrite with them. ;)
Click to expand...

You really nailed down the true meaning of love and its impossible for any of us to do it in and of yourself. Plus, if salvation is dependent upon it, everyone is doomed.
 
B

Ben Masada

New member
Bradley D said:
As Paul said in 1 Corinthians 1 if I "do not have love, I am nothing (v.2)." Paul said some people do good things to "boast" (v.3). I must always examine my reasons for doing something for others. To make it is done for the right, in other words for God's glory.

I do not judge other peoples motives (Luke 6:37). I'm busy enough keeping track of mine.
Click to expand...

As far as I am concerned, there is one way to love and two reasons to give: The way to love is obedience and for the two reasons to give, one is the need according to the receiver and the other is according to the power of the giver.
 
B

Ben Masada

New member
Danoh said:
1 - Actually, He was making the burden that the Law was, Acts 15:10, even more burdensome.

2 - "That sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful," Romans 7:13.

3 - Why? Towards what intent?

4 - That after His resurrection Israel might turn to Him for deliverance in their awareness of their utter hopelessness in themselves, Romans 10.

5 - Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

6 - Acts 3:16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
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1 - You don't need to worry about "our Fathers"; it was not burdensome for them to obey the Law as they did for love.

2 - Perhaps because you are speaking about Paul and his followers.

3 - Towards the intent that we are the children of the Most High. (Rev.14:12)

4 - That no longer sounds resurrection but bribe. With the intent to bribe.

5 - Now, it is your turn to open your understanding to the only Scriptures aka the Tanach that existed at the time.

6 - Remember though that the man Jesus, lived by the Law and would not contradict the Scriptures about the Resurrection. (II Sam. 12:23; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9)
 
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