ECT Link to Updated OP for NT Eschatology #7

[Interplanner]

[When I first wrote this I went down the wrong trail. I meant to express what is now in the OP: that Rom 2 is one of the major indicators that Paul thought the worldwide day of judgement was right after the horrible events about to happen in Judea. I hope I didn't lose too many with the other subject.]

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112267

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Paul said that there was wrath upon Israel in the coming destruction of Jerusalem, and wrath upon the rest of the nations after that.

The Lord Jesus said this about the great tribulation which will come upon Jerusalem in the future:

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened" (Mt.24:21-22).​

This is exactly how the great tribulation will be shortened:

"I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem" (Zech.14:2-4).​

The eschatology of the preterists has no place for the fulfillment of this prophecy. So you must think that it has already happened. When did it happen?

 

[OCTOBER23]

INTERESTING QUESTION

Let me think about it.

We know that the JEWS will take over the Territories of IRAN, Syria and Egypt in 2016-17
Next there is a Peace Treaty for 7 years.
3.5 years later Turkey comes down and takes over Jerusalem
The Moslems force JEWS to become Moslems or they cannot buy any food.
Next the Mahdi attacks the Christians which are composed of many nations.
- Therefore , JESUS will come and JUDGE the WHOLE EARTH = all mankind.

 

[Danoh]

INTERESTING QUESTION

Let me think about it.

You have just been baited into a contest you cannot win - Jerry never loses - never. He is that delusional. Just watch it play out between you two.

 

[Interplanner]

The Lord Jesus said this about the great tribulation which will come upon Jerusalem in the future:

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened" (Mt.24:21-22).​

This is exactly how the great tribulation will be shortened:

"I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem" (Zech.14:2-4).​

The eschatology of the preterists has no place for the fulfillment of this prophecy. So you must think that it has already happened. When did it happen?

I'm not concerned in the least about that one prophecy. You talk like if you don't know what it is or when it happened, everything falls apart. Not to me. The apostles said nothing about it or Ezek 38, 39 or Ps 89--the three fav passages of pop eschatology today. (They should have spent their time in Ps 2, 16 and 110--at least trying to sound like the apostles.)

Rereading it, I really don't know what he means or why anyone would think it is a victory. If that is a victory, it minimizes carnage (of Israel!) and rape (of Israeli women!). You can believe it with all your heart, just don't tell anyone.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I'm not concerned in the least about that one prophecy.

What kind of attitude is that?

What you mean is that since preterism has no place in their eschatology for this to happen and it obviously hadn't happened in the past so you say that it isn't important enough to worry about.

All I see is a broken system called "preterism" which has a prophecy of a major event which they cannot explain.

On the other hand, the futurists' explanation fits perfectly with their eschatology.

 

[Interplanner]

I mean that there is no concern in the NT about such passages or what they are about. I mean that all futurism is concerned about is such passages even if they don't know what the NT is about.

There is no reason why there would be any more specific acts by God just for Israel in modern times. The NT is abundantly clear that that kind of thing is not what God does any more. There is of course the final day of judgement for all mankind but not Judaic things.

The OP was about the fact--the perception by Paul--that there was no delay between the catastrophe coming on Israel in the 1st century and the worldwide judgement. Not only is Paul set on this, but it shows in Luke (Paul's chronicler) in that Lk 21 does not mention the possible delay like Mk 13 and Mt 24B does. Paul sounds this way all the time (Thess, Cor, etc).

What JerryS is doing by the way is pushing the whole discourse out to the distant future. I don't know about you, but I'd never tell anyone I thought that. Any normal reading of the material, from Mt 21 to 25, would show that the catastrophe Christ just mentioned in 21, 22, 23 was going to happen soon. The tailspinning disciples thought the buildings were really beautiful and forever, and were shocked all over again to hear him speak of them being ruined, and so he had to let them in on it, to protect them, to protect his people, his work, his church.

The idea that Christ suddenly jumped centuries at this important moment makes Christ out to be on LSD, or a Rajneesh cult, or a space-case or mental. Take your pick. But it makes him not totally dialed in to the grinding issues of Judaism's zealots vs Rome.