Learning the Law, learning God's Law.

Jacob

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Banned
How are people taught God's Law and when are they responsible to God and others for it? How is it that we can always keep learning but there is a time when a person can be responsible for it or that a person can come to know and understand God's Law?

Were you taught God's Law or do you intend to learn it? Are you learning God's Law?

Maybe if people don't learn God's Law they might or will transgress it.

What is the punishment for breaking God's Law? Does it depend on your knowledge of it?

We ought to learn God's Law. We ought to learn the Law. Our Law comes to us from God. There is always a reason for what you learn or come across. But God's Law never fails. It came to us from God.

That Law has been established and that new laws are made. And that the governing authorities and judges have been entrusted by God with what they do, even be it considered a sacred duty.

Shalom.

Jacob
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
[h=1] Galatians 3New International Version (NIV)[/h] [h=3]Faith or Works of the Law[/h]3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?[a] 4 Have you experienced[b] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[c]
7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”[d] 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[e] 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”[f] 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”[g] 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”[h] 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
[h=3]The Law and the Promise[/h]15 Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,”[i] meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one.
21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
[h=3]Children of God[/h]23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 

Jacob

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Banned
[h=1] Galatians 3New International Version (NIV)[/h] [h=3]Faith or Works of the Law[/h]3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?[a] 4 Have you experienced[b] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[c]
7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”[d] 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[e] 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”[f] 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”[g] 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”[h] 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
[h=3]The Law and the Promise[/h]15 Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,”[i] meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one.
21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
[h=3]Children of God[/h]23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Thank you for posting this. Would you like to make any comment?
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
Thank you for posting this. Would you like to make any comment?

I think it speaks for itself. It is a very good description of how the law of the Old Covenant is no longer used to judge us and that life in Christ grants us great freedom.
 

Jacob

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Banned
I think it speaks for itself. It is a very good description of how the law of the Old Covenant is no longer used to judge us and that life in Christ grants us great freedom.

I do not know how to respond to your post. I observe the Torah. I believe that there are punishments for transgressing God's Law. I also believe that I have freedom from sin in Christ.

Shalom.

Jacob
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
I do not know how to respond to your post. I observe the Torah. I believe that there are punishments for transgressing God's Law. I also believe that I have freedom from sin in Christ.

Shalom.

Jacob
If you believed that you had freedom from sin in Christ you wouldn't believe that there are punishments for transgressing the law.
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
If you believed that you had freedom from sin in Christ you wouldn't believe that there are punishments for transgressing the law.

Incorrect. However, I can listen and discuss this with you.

Do you believe that there is such a thing as a righteous Judge or do you believe that a Judge cannot be righteous because you have freedom from sin in Christ? Is freedom from sin that you don't sin or that you are forgiven of your sin or that you do sin but you are forgiven of your sin? If you cannot sin, do not sin, or are forgiven of all your sin, whether you sin or not, is that freedom from sin (in Christ)? And, does that mean that you are not punished or that no one is punished? If you do not believe in punishment do you not believe in punishment for you if you transgress the law or do you believe that there are no punishments any more or any longer so there are no punishments for anyone including you? Freedom from sin is not freedom from the law for those who are not free from sin. Are you free from sin? Why would you desire to be free from the law over free from sin if freedom from the law is not calling sin what it is and the law came to us from and by God? Do you believe that the law is from God? Whose law is it? What do you believe about the new covenant?

Shalom.

Jacob
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
Incorrect. However, I can listen and discuss this with you.
It is not incorrect. You are attempting to hold two mutually exclusive positions.

Do you believe that there is such a thing as a righteous Judge or do you believe that a Judge cannot be righteous because you have freedom from sin in Christ?
God is our judge. The question is, how will he judge you? Will he judge you based on the law or based on what you do with the gift His Son died to give you?

Is freedom from sin that you don't sin or that you are forgiven of your sin or that you do sin but you are forgiven of your sin?
Sin is measured against the law. If there is no law, how can there be sin? Christ died to fulfill the law so we are no longer guilty of sin. Just remember, we are free to do all things but not all things are beneficial to us.

If you cannot sin, do not sin, or are forgiven of all your sin, whether you sin or not, is that freedom from sin (in Christ)?
Yes, I think that is a reasonable description of freedom.

And, does that mean that you are not punished or that no one is punished?
You can choose to be with God or apart from God. The place described in scripture for those apart from God can be seen as a form of punishment.

If you do not believe in punishment do you not believe in punishment for you if you transgress the law or do you believe that there are no punishments any more or any longer so there are no punishments for anyone including you?
I do not believe that there is any punishment for transgressing the law. See above for what I believe about what happens to those who reject God's gift of salvation and grace.

Freedom from sin is not freedom from the law for those who are not free from sin. Are you free from sin?
See Above.

Why would you desire to be free from the law over free from sin if freedom from the law is not calling sin what it is and the law came to us from and by God?
There is no sin apart from the law. Why would you want to make yourself the slave to something that you cannot possibly live up to instead of accepting Christ's offer of forgiveness and freedom? I would rather live free in Christ than live in fear of the law.

Do you believe that the law is from God?
Yes, God gave the law. God also gave us freedom from the law through Christ.

Whose law is it?
The law that you submit to? Those are now man's laws.

What do you believe about the new covenant?
That all who accept Christ as their Lord and Savior are forgiven of all their sins past, present and future. The law is my teacher and that is all.
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
It is not incorrect. You are attempting to hold two mutually exclusive positions.

God is our judge. The question is, how will he judge you? Will he judge you based on the law or based on what you do with the gift His Son died to give you?

Sin is measured against the law. If there is no law, how can there be sin? Christ died to fulfill the law so we are no longer guilty of sin. Just remember, we are free to do all things but not all things are beneficial to us.

Yes, I think that is a reasonable description of freedom.

You can choose to be with God or apart from God. The place described in scripture for those apart from God can be seen as a form of punishment.

I do not believe that there is any punishment for transgressing the law. See above for what I believe about what happens to those who reject God's gift of salvation and grace.

See Above.

There is no sin apart from the law. Why would you want to make yourself the slave to something that you cannot possibly live up to instead of accepting Christ's offer of forgiveness and freedom? I would rather live free in Christ than live in fear of the law.

Yes, God gave the law. God also gave us freedom from the law through Christ.

The law that you submit to? Those are now man's laws.

That all who accept Christ as their Lord and Savior are forgiven of all their sins past, present and future. The law is my teacher and that is all.

Incorrect. Sin is transgression of the law. You need freedom from sin, not freedom from the law. The law came from God. It is good. I do not understand why you think that you need or have freedom from it. According to the law there is punishment for breaking the law. It requires a study of the law to see what this is or what this means. How the law is applied in each case in judgment. There is law and if you have sinned then you are guilty of sin. You are not free to transgress God's law. Remember, against such things there is no law, the fruit of the Spirit. So there are things that are against the law is true. I do not know why you are talking about living in fear of the law. The Law is good. It came, comes to us, from God. It is His Word to us. I have freedom from sin and forgiveness in the free gift of God in Jesus Christ who died for me, eternal life. Or grace or forgiveness have brought about freedom from sin in my life. God's Law is not man's law. And man's law is to be submitted to because the governing authorities or law makers have been put in place by God to (enforce or) create laws in keeping with Torah, God's Law. You do believe in punishment for sin. If you believe in judges who make decisions by God then do you believe in punishment before a person dies, or which ends in a person's death? The death penalty, capital punishment, etc.... Do you believe that anyone should be corrected or disciplined? Punished? Because you are telling me that I am wrong, which means you are exerting what you believe to be your authority in or on the matters we are discussing... but you appear to be saying no one has that authority because there is no law or enforcement of law. I am a slave to righteousness, not to sin. See the book of Romans.

Shalom.

Jacob
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
Incorrect. Sin is transgression of the law. You need freedom from sin, not freedom from the law. The law came from God. It is good. I do not understand why you think that you need or have freedom from it. According to the law there is punishment for breaking the law. It requires a study of the law to see what this is or what this means. How the law is applied in each case in judgment. There is law and if you have sinned then you are guilty of sin. You are not free to transgress God's law. Remember, against such things there is no law, the fruit of the Spirit. So there are things that are against the law is true. I do not know why you are talking about living in fear of the law. The Law is good. It came, comes to us, from God. It is His Word to us. I have freedom from sin and forgiveness in the free gift of God in Jesus Christ who died for me, eternal life. Or grace or forgiveness have brought about freedom from sin in my life. God's Law is not man's law. And man's law is to be submitted to because the governing authorities or law makers have been put in place by God to (enforce or) create laws in keeping with Torah, God's Law. You do believe in punishment for sin. If you believe in judges who make decisions by God then do you believe in punishment before a person dies, or which ends in a person's death? The death penalty, capital punishment, etc.... Do you believe that anyone should be corrected or disciplined? Punished? Because you are telling me that I am wrong, which means you are exerting what you believe to be your authority in or on the matters we are discussing... but you appear to be saying no one has that authority because there is no law or enforcement of law. I am a slave to righteousness, not to sin. See the book of Romans.

Shalom.

Jacob

Romans 7 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

I am freed from slavery to the law. What do you believe about the New Covenant.
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Romans 7 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

I am freed from slavery to the law. What do you believe about the New Covenant.

I do not know why you believe you were ever a slave to the law. May you receive your instruction from God's Holy Law, from His Torah. The word Torah means Instruction, Teaching, Direction, Law.

The New Covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts.
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Romans 7 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

I am freed from slavery to the law. What do you believe about the New Covenant.

One more thing.

Romans 6:22 NASB - 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
I do not know why you believe you were ever a slave to the law. May you receive your instruction from God's Holy Law, from His Torah. The word Torah means Instruction, Teaching, Direction, Law.

The New Covenant is for the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on minds and hearts.
I get the idea about be a slave to the law from Paul's teachings in Galatians. The law is my teacher but the law iis no longer able to condemn me even if I break it. That is what Christ's sacrifice on the cross accomplished for all: freedom from judgement according to the law.

One more thing.

Romans 6:22 NASB - 22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.

What is your question?
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
I get the idea about be a slave to the law from Paul's teachings in Galatians. The law is my teacher but the law iis no longer able to condemn me even if I break it. That is what Christ's sacrifice on the cross accomplished for all: freedom from judgement according to the law.



What is your question?

I do not see freedom from judgment according to the law. I see freedom from sin, and its penalty or consequence at minimum being death and whatever happens after that for those who are not saved.

I do not have a question. These verses are necessary or might help though.

Romans 6:16 NASB - Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

Romans 6:18 NASB - and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
 
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