K thru Hell: Part I

[Jefferson]

K thru Hell: Part I

Thursday November 17th, 2005. This is show # 229.

BEST QUOTE OF THE SHOW:

[Klebold and Harris] wrote violent writings talking about the joys of murdering people and those were graded. And one of the papers that we forced released through Freedom of Information in the courts, they released it but without a grade. And it took another couple years but when we finally got it we saw how they graded it. It got an A -. The joy of murdering innocent people. The school systems teach this philosophy. The philosophy says you have the right to make up your own mind whatever is right for you. So anything goes. Whatever feels right to you, it's your decision. And then they teach you come from the slime through evolution so you are slime so you might as well behave like slime. So there's no absolute right or wrong. There's absolutely nothing taught in the school that lets them condemn the very school shootings that they say they're so worried about.

 

[allsmiles]

[Klebold and Harris] wrote violent writings talking about the joys of murdering people and those were graded. And one of the papers that we forced released through Freedom of Information in the courts, they released it but without a grade. And it took another couple years but when we finally got it we saw how they graded it. It got an A -. The joy of murdering innocent people. The school systems teach this philosophy. The philosophy says you have the right to make up your own mind whatever is right for you. So anything goes. Whatever feels right to you, it's your decision. And then they teach you come from the slime through evolution so you are slime so you might as well behave like slime. So there's no absolute right or wrong. There's absolutely nothing taught in the school that lets them condemn the very school shootings that they say they're so worried about.

i've used the "if we evolved from slime than we are slime and there's no reason to act otherwise" argument as a christian, and it's just bogus. it's ignorant and childish and i'm embarassed to have used it myself, but i'm even more embarassed that a grown man with a talk radio show feels he can get away with it. we are humans, not slime. it doesn't matter what we evolved from, what matters is what we are now.

that's my two cents.

thanks,

AS

 

[Greywolf]

Perhaps grades on papers are not based on a moral judgement of the paper's message, but rather things like good spelling, grammar, and effective communication. :think:

 

[Shalom]

Perhaps grades on papers are not based on a moral judgement of the paper's message, but rather things like good spelling, grammar, and effective communication. :think:

So do you think that its appropriate for a teen to write papers about murdering people?

What if a teen turns in a paper about the desire to rape another student?

If your the teacher do you just grade it on good spelling, grammar, and effective communication?

 

[Granite]

Since I actually haven't read it myself I'll reserve judgment.

 

[Adam]

Since I actually haven't read it myself I'll reserve judgment.

Since you weren't there, do you believe Washington was the first president?

 

[koban]

Since you weren't there, do you believe Washington was the first president?

Is this a trick question??

Here's a trick answer:

Washington wasn't the first President of the United States*



in Congress Assembled http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_Continental_Congress

 

[fool]

Since you weren't there, do you believe Washington was the first president?

He didn't say anything about being anywhere, he said he'd like to read the paper, is there a problem with reading the paper?

 

[Greywolf]

So do you think that its appropriate for a teen to write papers about murdering people?

appropriate - Suitable for a particular person, condition, occasion, or place; fitting.

I'd say it would depend on the paper. I wouldn't expect to see someone writing about murdering people in, say, a report about George Washington. But if the subject was pertinent to the topic of the paper, then yes.

What if a teen turns in a paper about the desire to rape another student?

If the teacher deemed the statements in the paper to be an actual threat, then I would expect the teacher to treat it like he/she would any other such threat. It should not affect the grade the paper receives however.

If your the teacher do you just grade it on good spelling, grammar, and effective communication?

The purpose of writing papers for a class is usually to demonstrate good spelling, grammar, and effective communication. Hence, those are the qualities that the paper should be graded on. So to answer your question, yes.

 

[Shalom]

appropriate - Suitable for a particular person, condition, occasion, or place; fitting.

I'd say it would depend on the paper. I wouldn't expect to see someone writing about murdering people in, say, a report about George Washington. But if the subject was pertinent to the topic of the paper, then yes.



If the teacher deemed the statements in the paper to be an actual threat, then I would expect the teacher to treat it like he/she would any other such threat. It should not affect the grade the paper receives however.



The purpose of writing papers for a class is usually to demonstrate good spelling, grammar, and effective communication. Hence, those are the qualities that the paper should be graded on. So to answer your question, yes.

If the teacher decides its not a threat and the rape is carried out by the student when the big investigation starts, should the teacher be held accountable at all for just grading the paper?

I think teachers should be teaching students what is appropriate and not appropriate for subject topics as well as grading for good spelling, grammar, and effective communication. Klebold and Harris were not writing reports about George Washington. Hind sight is 20/20 of course.

 

[Greywolf]

If the teacher decides its not a threat and the rape is carried out by the student when the big investigation starts, should the teacher be held accountable at all for just grading the paper?

No.

I think teachers should be teaching students what is appropriate and not appropriate for subject topics as well as grading for good spelling, grammar, and effective communication.

As far as I'm concerned there is no such thing as appropriate and not appropriate topics in writing (provided it is pertinent to the topic at hand), anything goes. Anyway, there are already enough people here complaining about schools trying to push some moral agenda or the other.

Klebold and Harris were not writing reports about George Washington.

True.

Hind sight is 20/20 of course.

Exactly, and that is very important to keep in mind. It may seem obvious now, but when the teacher first read that paper I'd imagine that the first thought that flashed through her mind wasn't "these boys are going to go on a killing spree".

 

[Adam]

Is this a trick question??

Here's a trick answer:

Washington wasn't the first President of the United States*



in Congress Assembled http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_Continental_Congress

You know what argument I'm making. Don't detract, it's entirely unprofessional.

 

[Mr. 5020]

You know what argument I'm making. Don't detract, it's entirely unprofessional.

Unprofessional? At TOL? :shocked:

 

[koban]

You know what argument I'm making. Don't detract, it's entirely unprofessional.

First of all, what profession?

Second of all, the argument you are making in response to Granite's desire to reserve judgement until he has more information appears to be that since he can read about it he should believe it.

Silly argument, silly response.

 

[Jefferson]

As far as I'm concerned there is no such thing as appropriate and not appropriate topics in writing (provided it is pertinent to the topic at hand), anything goes.

That's exactly the reason why we are in favor of either homeschooling or Christian schools.

 

[Adam]

Exactly Ninveveh.

It seems that some folks here would not only be in support of a paper supporting rape but would also support same paper if it had a 'how to' section with step-by-step instructions and diagrams.

 

[Turbo]

Hey allsmiles, do you agree with this? Do these statements accurately represent your view? If not, could you please explain your disagreement(s)?

i can only think of scenarios that murder would be wrong from my point of view. if harris and klebold believed that murder is okay then it doesn't really matter what i think of murder to them, now does it?

our beliefs or values differ but they cancel each other out, my values do not influence theirs just as theirs do not influence mine, the existence of difference is evidence for moral relativism.

from harris and klebold's perspective obviously murder isn't wrong because they did it willingly. their perspective is no better or worse and is no more "right" or "wrong" than anyone else's.​

 

[Lighthouse]

It should not affect the grade the paper receives however.

I don't even know where to begin with a statement like this.

 

[Lighthouse]

If allsmiles actually thinks murderers don't think murder is wrong, then he's a lot more ignorant than I previously thought.

 

[Greywolf]

I don't even know where to begin with a statement like this.

If you can't think where to start with my statement, maybe you could state why you think otherwise.