Jewish Suffering - Isaiah 53 vs. Deuteronomy 28

[beameup]

Jews interpret Isaiah 53 to be referring to the suffering of the Jewish people. They claim that their suffering yields salvation for all mankind.
Deuteronomy 28 states that if the Jewish people are disobedient then they will suffer as a consequence.
Deuteronomy 28 is quite graphic in describing intense suffering under a curse from God. As far as I can tell, the intense suffering has occurred in the last <2,000 years

 

[Jacob]

Jews interpret Isaiah 53 to be referring to the suffering of the Jewish people. They claim that their suffering yields salvation for all mankind.
Deuteronomy 28 states that if the Jewish people are disobedient then they will suffer as a consequence.
Deuteronomy 28 is quite graphic in describing intense suffering under a curse from God. As far as I can tell, the intense suffering has occurred in the last <2,000 years

Shalom.

Today is Sheni, 10-21.

I do not understand why you have made this post. I do not see any basis for it. What you have posted is untrue, inaccurate. You are talking about suffering, the suffering of our people. Suffering for sin makes sense as a concept. But maybe you have "vs." because you recognize that these chapters are talking about different things, though you try to frame the Jewish people with it.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[beameup]

What you have posted is untrue, inaccurate. You are talking about suffering, the suffering of our people. Suffering for sin makes sense as a concept. But maybe you have "vs." because you recognize that these chapters are talking about different things, though you try to frame the Jewish people with it.

Jacob

OK. Perhaps you can enlighten us as to how most Jews interpret Isaiah 53 (actually Isa 52:13-53:12)

 

[Jacob]

OK. Perhaps you can enlighten us as to how most Jews interpret Isaiah 53 (actually Isa 52:13-53:12)

Shalom.

Today is Revi'i, 10-23. It is Yom, Day.

The question is if the suffering servant is Israel or the Messiah.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[beameup]

Shalom.

Today is Revi'i, 10-23. It is Yom, Day.

The question is if the suffering servant is Israel or the Messiah.

Shalom.

Jacob

You didn't answer the question.

Here's another: According to Deuteronomy 28, curses (suffering) on the Jewish people is because of DISOBEDIENCE.
Do most Jews recognize that their suffering is the result of disobedience?

 

[Jacob]

You didn't answer the question.

Here's another: According to Deuteronomy 28, curses (suffering) on the Jewish people is because of DISOBEDIENCE.
Do most Jews recognize that their suffering is the result of disobedience?

Shalom.

Today is Chamishi, 10-24. It is Yom, Day. Boker, Morning.

I do not understand why you correlate curses with suffering, nor do I understand the manner in which you do so.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Squeaky]

Jews interpret Isaiah 53 to be referring to the suffering of the Jewish people. They claim that their suffering yields salvation for all mankind.
Deuteronomy 28 states that if the Jewish people are disobedient then they will suffer as a consequence.
Deuteronomy 28 is quite graphic in describing intense suffering under a curse from God. As far as I can tell, the intense suffering has occurred in the last <2,000 years

I said
I agree.

 

[Elia]

Jews interpret Isaiah 53 to be referring to the suffering of the Jewish people. They claim that their suffering yields salvation for all mankind.

Bs"d

Wrong. The suffering of the Jews yields salvation for the Jews, not for all mankind.

For more about the Jewish outlook on Isaiah 53 look here: http://Isaiah53.notlong.com

Deuteronomy 28 states that if the Jewish people are disobedient then they will suffer as a consequence.
Deuteronomy 28 is quite graphic in describing intense suffering under a curse from God. As far as I can tell, the intense suffering has occurred in the last <2,000 years

For more info on that see here: https://sites.google.com/site/777mountzion/holocausteng

 

[Elia]

Shalom.

Today is Revi'i, 10-23. It is Yom, Day.

The question is if the suffering servant is Israel or the Messiah.

Bs"d

What do you think?

 

[beameup]

Bs"d

Wrong. The suffering of the Jews yields salvation for the Jews, not for all mankind.

Thus He will sprinkle many nations - Isaiah 52:15a
The term "sprinkle" is used in relationship to a blood sacrifice.
Without the shedding of blood, there will be no forgiveness of SIN.
The term "nations" refers to Gentiles (goyum)

Perhaps you should learn what your own scripture says.
Obviously YHWH provides for forgiveness of sin for Gentiles.

 

[Elia]

Thus He will sprinkle many nations - Isaiah 52:15a
The term "sprinkle" is used in relationship to a blood sacrifice.

Bs"d

It is also used in many other relations. There is no iron clad rule that it must refer to a blood sacrifice.

Without the shedding of blood, there will be no forgiveness of SIN.

Of course there is forgiveness without the shedding of blood.

Lev 5: "Anyone who cannot afford a lamb is to bring two doves or two young pigeons to the Lord as a penalty for their sin—one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. 8 They are to bring them to the priest, who shall first offer the one for the sin offering. He is to wring its head from its neck, not dividing it completely, 9 and is to splash some of the blood of the sin offering against the side of the altar; the rest of the blood must be drained out at the base of the altar. It is a sin offering. 10 The priest shall then offer the other as a burnt offering in the prescribed way and make atonement for them for the sin they have committed, and they will be forgiven.
11 If, however, they cannot afford two doves or two young pigeons, they are to bring as an offering for their sin a tenth of an ephah of the finest flour for a sin offering. They must not put olive oil or incense on it, because it is a sin offering. 12 They are to bring it to the priest, who shall take a handful of it as a memorial[c] portion and burn it on the altar on top of the food offerings presented to the Lord. It is a sin offering. 13 In this way the priest will make atonement for them for any of these sins they have committed, and they will be forgiven."

As we see here, forgiveness can be gotten through a flour offering. No blood being shed.

Read here more about forgiveness without blood: https://sites.google.com/site/777mountzion/sacrifices

The term "nations" refers to Gentiles (goyum)

Perhaps you should learn what your own scripture says.
Obviously YHWH provides for forgiveness of sin for Gentiles.

Of course He does. If they repent, and return to Gods laws, then God forgives.

But that still doesn't mean that Isaiah 53 speaks about the messiah.

It doesn't.

For the finer details look here: http://Isaiah53.notlong.com

 

[beameup]

Bs"d

Of course He does. If they repent, and return to Gods laws, then God forgives.

"God's laws"???
You have 613 Commandments, and over 200 are currently impossible for you to obey.
You have no Temple and no Priests to offer up blood sacrifices for your sin.
The offering of the appropriate sacrifice for sin is specified by Moses, and YHWH even provided for an exception for those who are truly poor.

 

[Jacob]

Bs"d

What do you think?

Shalom.

Today is Chamishi, 11-2.

I think a person needs to read Isaiah 53 for their self to find out.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Elia]

Shalom.

Today is Chamishi, 11-2.

I think a person needs to read Isaiah 53 for their self to find out.

Shalom.

Jacob

Bs"d

Preferably not in a corrupted Christian translation.

And the person needs of course background information.

That can be found here: http://Isaiah53.notlong.com

 

[Jacob]

Bs"d

Preferably not in a corrupted Christian translation.

And the person needs of course background information.

That can be found here: http://Isaiah53.notlong.com

Yeshayahu - Isaiah - Chapter 53