Jesus's Sacrifice

[Alexis Georg Hoen]

The interpretation of the sacrificial death of Jesus by the Roman Catholic Church and many others is the one proposed by St. Anselm, namely that Jesus paid by his death for the sins of humanity. It echoes the passage in the letter to the Hebrews (9:11-14) which sees him as taking place of the "goats and calves" sacrificed by a priest on the Day of Atonement.
But I do not believe that that sacrificial ritual relates to the death of Jesus. He did not die on the Day of Atonement but on the Day of Passover and identified not with the "goats and calves" but with the Passover Lamb. The sacrifice of the Lamb was a means of escaping from captivity in Egypt, just as we may escape from sin and death by sacrificing our selfish acts and desires. Jesus's sacrifice is not a payment for sins but an example pointing a way out of the captivity of sinful selfishness. It is a culmination and validation of the entire body of his teaching.
The theory of "payment" is based on the view that evil in the world is the result of human wickedness, of a debt incurred by Adam and his descendants. But in reality evil is needed for the definition of good, and death for the realization of life. God exposes the world, his beloved child, to suffering and death so that it may live. This is symbolized by the suffering of Jesus, the Son of God, and by his Resurrection.

 

[daqq]

:think:

 

[Alexis Georg Hoen]

I believe that everything that exists, being it rocks, plants, animals or humans are possessed of a basic divine element, the will to "creative advance into novelty," a term coined by Alfred North Whitehead.This view does not include the existence of a personal God but it does not deny it. It only states that all of us, including Jesus, are representatives of God in his most basic aspect. This, in turn, means that the difference between Jesus and us is not qualitative but merely, and significantly, quantitative.

 

[Nick M]

Jesus's sacrifice is not a payment for sins but an example pointing a way out of the captivity of sinful selfishness.

1 Corinthians 15

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

Welcome to Choleric's list. And it seems that is where you belong.

 

[Nick M]

And the passover is in fact foreshadowing the atonement. Death passes over those of us in him. Even Cecil B. DeMille gets it.

 

[Alexis Georg Hoen]

Yes, I believe that Jesus saves, not necessarily by paying for our sins but by teaching us to step out of our selfish isolation. This is not incompatible with the belief that Jesus is God but it yields of meaning of Christianity and a guidance to those who cannot accept such a belief.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

1 Corinthians 15

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

Welcome to Choleric's list. And it seems that is where you belong.

No doubt of that.

 

[musterion]

Yes, I believe that Jesus saves, not necessarily by paying for our sins but by teaching us to step out of our selfish isolation. This is not incompatible with the belief that Jesus is God but it yields of meaning of Christianity and a guidance to those who cannot accept such a belief.

That's a false gospel.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I believe that everything that exists, being it rocks, plants, animals or humans are possessed of a basic divine element, the will to "creative advance into novelty," a term coined by Alfred North Whitehead.This view does not include the existence of a personal God but it does not deny it. It only states that all of us, including Jesus, are representatives of God in his most basic aspect. This, in turn, means that the difference between Jesus and us is not qualitative but merely, and significantly, quantitative.

You really ought to check out the "Urantia Book" thread. you share a lot in common with Freelight and Caino. They're TOLs "Top Cultists." They believe in what's called a "UFO Cult." They'll probably welcome your odd beliefs with open minds and hearts.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

That's a false gospel.

Yeah. Another strange visitor to TOL.

 

[HisServant]

Yes, I believe that Jesus saves, not necessarily by paying for our sins but by teaching us to step out of our selfish isolation. This is not incompatible with the belief that Jesus is God but it yields of meaning of Christianity and a guidance to those who cannot accept such a belief.

There is absolutely nothing you can sacrifice or do yourself that can pay for your sins... period.

So if you do not believe Jesus paid for your sins, you have a serious problem.

 

[steko]

Yes, I believe that Jesus saves, not necessarily by paying for our sins but by teaching us to step out of our selfish isolation. .

"T'ain't enough! Call back later."- Spanky

 

[steko]

Yeah. Another strange visitor to TOL.

Somebody needs to build a wall.

 

[patrick jane]

I believe that everything that exists, being it rocks, plants, animals or humans are possessed of a basic divine element, the will to "creative advance into novelty," a term coined by Alfred North Whitehead.This view does not include the existence of a personal God but it does not deny it. It only states that all of us, including Jesus, are representatives of God in his most basic aspect. This, in turn, means that the difference between Jesus and us is not qualitative but merely, and significantly, quantitative.

jibberish

 

[Ben Masada]

Yes, I believe that Jesus saves, not necessarily by paying for our sins but by teaching us to step out of our selfish isolation. This is not incompatible with the belief that Jesus is God but it yields of meaning of Christianity and a guidance to those who cannot accept such a belief.

How can Jesus save the living, now that he is dead, considering that when he was alive, he could not save even himself?

 

[Ben Masada]

I believe that everything that exists, being it rocks, plants, animals or humans are possessed of a basic divine element, the will to "creative advance into novelty," a term coined by Alfred North Whitehead.This view does not include the existence of a personal God but it does not deny it. It only states that all of us, including Jesus, are representatives of God in his most basic aspect. This, in turn, means that the difference between Jesus and us is not qualitative but merely, and significantly, quantitative.

Quantitative! I don't think so. The difference between Jesus and his People was not quantitative because, when HaShem chose Israel to be His peculiar People and begotten firstborn son, He said, "Israel is My Son; let My Son go that he may serve Me." (Exodus 4:22,23) Two thousand years ago, Jesus was born and lived 33 years as part of the People of Israel as son of God. So, quantitatively, there was no difference between Jesus and Israel. The attempt to distinguish Jesus from Israel and replace Israel with Jesus as an individual, was the first step in the building of the gospel Paul aka the NT.

 

[Nick M]

Yes, I believe that Jesus saves, not necessarily by paying for our sins but

1 Corinthians 15

3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

Why do you beat around the bush?n Come right out and say you reject his gift.

 

[Nick M]

Somebody needs to build a wall.

Yes, but not here. They need to be shown 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, so they are without excuse.

 

[Nick M]

How can Jesus save the living, now that he is dead, considering that when he was alive, he could not save even himself?

Psalm 22

7 All those who see Me ridicule Me; They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,8 “He trusted in the Lord, let Him rescue Him; Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!”

Ben's low hanging fruit sure is tasty.

 

[jamie]

But I do not believe that that sacrificial ritual relates to the death of Jesus. He did not die on the Day of Atonement but on the Day of Passover...

The Passover is for the firstborn. The Day of Atonement is for everyone who chooses atonement.