JESUS: Our Substitute and Representative Saviour

R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
The words "Substitute" and "Representative" are closely related. Both words can be used to articulate the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

SUBSTITUTE: To take the place of another.

REPRESENTATIVE: To act on the behalf of another.

Example of a substitute. Jesus was taking our place on the cross. We are the guilty ones that needed to be crucified, but Jesus took our place and atoned for our sins. "He that knew no sin became sin for us" 2 Corinthians 5:21, just like we did it ourselves. We could not atone for our sins because God requires a perfect sacrifice for the sins of humanity. We are sinners. Sinners cannot atone for the sins of other sinners.

Example of a representative. Jesus came into the world as the new Adam to do for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. By his righteous, sinless life, he offered to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his holy law. He did this in our name and on our behalf as our representative. Jesus is our intercessor and our mediator. He is mediating his righteousness on our behalf, Hebrews 7:25. Jesus stands before God's holy court in our name and on our behalf presenting his righteousness on our account, Romans 3:26.

What is the results of the substitutionary and representative work of Christ? All that Jesus did was for our justification. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus, we can now stand before God in the judgment as justified. Perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.
 
WeberHome

WeberHome

New member
-
Christ's crucifixion is sometimes referred to as a vicarious substitutionary sacrifice. But the Bible doesn't allow for substitutions because that would not be justice; in point of fact, that would be a miscarriage of justice. No; people themselves have to die for their sins in order to satisfy the law of sin and death which reads like this:

● Ezek 18:20 . .The one who sins shall die.

● Rom 6:23 . . For the wages of sin is death

So; in order for Christ's crucifixion to protect people from a second physical death in the lake of brimstone depicted at Rev 20:10-15, it has to be, in some way, accounted as their own crucifixion as well as his; and God has invented an ingenious way for them to do that very thing by means of a baptism that involves neither clergy nor H2O.

● 1Cor 12:12-13 . . For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Seeing as how this particular baptism is supernatural rather than physical, then of course it's to be expected to make no sense whatsoever. However, in a nutshell; what this particular baptism does is make people participants in Christ's crucifixion instead of merely observers.

● Rom 6:3 . . Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

● Rom 6:6 . . Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him

● Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ

● Col 3:3 . . For you died when Christ died

The Watchtower Society agrees that Holy Spirit baptism did occur back in the day, but that it was only temporary. The Society insists that it ceased early-on so that now the one baptism spoken of in Eph 4:5 is the ritual of water baptism. Well; that is very tragic to say the least because it means that every one of the Jehovah's Witnesses alive today is on a road to termination in the lake of brimstone because they are merely observers of Christ's crucifixion instead of participants.

/
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
The words "Substitute" and "Representative" are closely related. Both words can be used to articulate the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

SUBSTITUTE: To take the place of another.

REPRESENTATIVE: To act on the behalf of another.

Example of a substitute. Jesus was taking our place on the cross. We are the guilty ones that needed to be crucified, but Jesus took our place and atoned for our sins. "He that knew no sin became sin for us" 2 Corinthians 5:21, just like we did it ourselves. We could not atone for our sins because God requires a perfect sacrifice for the sins of humanity. We are sinners. Sinners cannot atone for the sins of other sinners.

Example of a representative. Jesus came into the world as the new Adam to do for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. By his righteous, sinless life, he offered to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his holy law. He did this in our name and on our behalf as our representative. Jesus is our intercessor and our mediator. He is mediating his righteousness on our behalf, Hebrews 7:25. Jesus stands before God's holy court in our name and on our behalf presenting his righteousness on our account, Romans 3:26.

What is the results of the substitutionary and representative work of Christ? All that Jesus did was for our justification. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus, we can now stand before God in the judgment as justified. Perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.
Click to expand...

You deny that Christ death saved them He died for!
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
WeberHome said:
-
Christ's crucifixion is sometimes referred to as a vicarious substitutionary sacrifice. But the Bible doesn't allow for substitutions because that would not be justice; in point of fact, that would be a miscarriage of justice. No; people themselves have to die for their sins in order to satisfy the law of sin and death which reads like this:

● Ezek 18:20 . .The one who sins shall die.

● Rom 6:23 . . For the wages of sin is death

So; in order for Christ's crucifixion to protect people from a second physical death in the lake of brimstone depicted at Rev 20:10-15, it has to be, in some way, accounted as their own crucifixion as well as his; and God has invented an ingenious way for them to do that very thing by means of a baptism that involves neither clergy nor H2O.

● 1Cor 12:12-13 . . For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

Seeing as how this particular baptism is supernatural rather than physical, then of course it's to be expected to make no sense whatsoever. However, in a nutshell; what this particular baptism does is make people participants in Christ's crucifixion instead of merely observers.

● Rom 6:3 . . Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

● Rom 6:6 . . Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him

● Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ

● Col 3:3 . . For you died when Christ died

The Watchtower Society agrees that Holy Spirit baptism did occur back in the day, but that it was only temporary. The Society insists that it ceased early-on so that now the one baptism spoken of in Eph 4:5 is the ritual of water baptism. Well; that is very tragic to say the least because it means that every one of the Jehovah's Witnesses alive today is on a road to termination in the lake of brimstone because they are merely observers of Christ's crucifixion instead of participants.

/
Click to expand...

Good post.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
The Bible plainly teaches that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Therefor salvation has been provided for everyone, just like the scripture says, Hebrews 2:9.
Click to expand...

Again, you deny that Christ death alone saved them He died for! Correct?
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
beloved57 said:
Again, you deny that Christ death alone saved them He died for! Correct?
Click to expand...


No you are not correct.

Jesus has provided salvation for the whole world. Not just some certain person. Why is it you can't believe the Bible?

"And he is a propitiation for our sins: and not ours only, but also FOR THE WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2.

You are always in conflict with the word of God.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
No you are not correct.

Jesus has provided salvation for the whole world. Not just some certain person. Why is it you can't believe the Bible?

"And he is a propitiation for our sins: and not ours only, but also FOR THE WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2.

You are always in conflict with the word of God.
Click to expand...
Once Again, you deny that Christ death alone saved them He died for! Correct?
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
The words "Substitute" and "Representative" are closely related. Both words can be used to articulate the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

SUBSTITUTE: To take the place of another.

REPRESENTATIVE: To act on the behalf of another.

Example of a substitute. Jesus was taking our place on the cross. We are the guilty ones that needed to be crucified, but Jesus took our place and atoned for our sins. "He that knew no sin became sin for us" 2 Corinthians 5:21, just like we did it ourselves. We could not atone for our sins because God requires a perfect sacrifice for the sins of humanity. We are sinners. Sinners cannot atone for the sins of other sinners.

Example of a representative. Jesus came into the world as the new Adam to do for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. By his righteous, sinless life, he offered to God the Father a life of perfect obedience according to his holy law. He did this in our name and on our behalf as our representative. Jesus is our intercessor and our mediator. He is mediating his righteousness on our behalf, Hebrews 7:25. Jesus stands before God's holy court in our name and on our behalf presenting his righteousness on our account, Romans 3:26.

What is the results of the substitutionary and representative work of Christ? All that Jesus did was for our justification. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus, we can now stand before God in the judgment as justified. Perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.
Click to expand...
Why would God have to come in flesh and as a human sacrifice, be crucified by wicked men for the sins of the world and to make atonement to himself?

And to be a substitution for us to come to die on a cross to reconcile us to himself so that we can still live a life that pleases our flesh because God has sacrificed himself for us to do so?
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
marhig said:
Why would God have to come in flesh and as a human sacrifice, be crucified by wicked men for the sins of the world and to make atonement to himself?

And to be a substitution for us to come to die on a cross to reconcile us to himself so that we can still live a life that pleases our flesh because God has sacrificed himself for us to do so?
Click to expand...

Because that is the way God does things.

His ways are higher than our ways, Isaiah 58:8.
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Because that is the way God does things.

His ways are higher than our ways, Isaiah 58:8.
Click to expand...
Gods ways are higher than our ways, but it makes no sense for God to come and be crucified to reconcile us to himself. He didn't need to do that, he's God! Jesus came and preached the word and those who believe on him are those who are reconciled to God, and we are saved by his life.
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
marhig said:
Why would God have to come in flesh and as a human sacrifice, be crucified by wicked men for the sins of the world and to make atonement to himself?

And to be a substitution for us to come to die on a cross to reconcile us to himself so that we can still live a life that pleases our flesh because God has sacrificed himself for us to do so?
Click to expand...

Robert Pate said:
Because that is the way God does things.

His ways are higher than our ways, Isaiah 58:8.
Click to expand...

marhig said:
Gods ways are higher than our ways, but it makes no sense for God to come and be crucified to reconcile us to himself. He didn't need to do that, he's God! Jesus came and preached the word and those who believe on him are those who are reconciled to God, and we are saved by his life.
Click to expand...

Nope! he has Isaiah 58:8 so that makes it all true! (NOT). :shut: :rotfl:
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
marhig said:
Gods ways are higher than our ways, but it makes no sense for God to come and be crucified to reconcile us to himself. He didn't need to do that, he's God! Jesus came and preached the word and those who believe on him are those who are reconciled to God, and we are saved by his life.
Click to expand...

Jesus Christ is God's new Adam. He came into the world to do for us that which we cannot do for ourselves.

He is our intercessor and our mediator between us and God.
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Jesus Christ is God's new Adam. He came into the world to do for us that which we cannot do for ourselves.

He is our intercessor and our mediator between us and God.
Click to expand...

How is Jesus Christ our intercessor between us and God if he is God? If he is God, then we don't need an intercessor!
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
You teach that sinners Christ died for wind up lost any ways!
Click to expand...
Do you say anything else. Besides that sentence over and over? And why do you need to keep saying it to Robert anyway?

Also we are saved by his life, Jesus lived for sinners and we are saved by believing in him, through hearing the word of God, through faith by the grace God. As it says in the Bible!
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
marhig said:
How is Jesus Christ our intercessor between us and God if he is God? If he is God, then we don't need an intercessor!
Click to expand...

God is, holy, holy, holy. beyond human comprehension.

Yes, we need an intercessor and a mediator. Are you prepared to stand before a holy God in your sinful flesh?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top