JERRY SHUGART - FELLOWSHIP

OCTOBER23

OCTOBER23

New member
JERRY said,

Baptism was for those who were already saved.

and

Baptism was for Fellowship with the Lord.

Wrong.

JESUS came to Earth to build Godly Character as a human
and take it back to the Father who would send it down
and into the MINDS of the Apostles and Believers to
CHANGE THEIR MINDS and help them to OVERCOME SIN
IN THEIR LIVES as well as preach the Gospel.

There is NO BUDDY BUDDY FELLOWSHIP HERE .

IT IS A CHANGE OF THE MIND.

GOD says, I will put MY SPIRIT in them

and a NEW SPIRIT was put in them.

Isaiah 44:3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground:
I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:
Ezekiel 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
OCTOBER23 said:
JERRY said,

Baptism was for those who were already saved.
Click to expand...

Do you deny that? First, we see that before anyone could be baptized with water he had to first believe, as witnessed by the following exchange between Philip and the eunuch:

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God" (Acts 8:36-37).​

And here it is plain that once a person believes he is saved:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

If you do not agree with this then give me your interpretation of the meaning of what I "bolded" at John 3:16.

Thanks!
 
OCTOBER23

OCTOBER23

New member
JERRY said,
Baptism was for those who were already saved.
---------------------------------------------------
My answer - I DENY IT

Here are my Plain Scriptures that State that a MAN will NOT be Saved
before his own Death or when JESUS comes to Save him.

==================================
SAVED FROM THE WRATH OF GOD
---------------------------------------------
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1 Peter 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?Romans
Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved:
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved,Romans 5:9
 
OCTOBER23

OCTOBER23

New member
JERRY IT IS CONDITIONAL NOT DEFINITE
-----------------------------------------
John 3:15Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

John 315 that every one who is believing in him may not perish,
but may have life age-during,
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John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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NOTICE THAT IT USES THE WORD may or should instead of WILL NOT PERISH.

WHY THIS CONDITIONAL WORD INSTEAD OF A CONCRETE WORD.

-- YOU HAVE TO ENDURE TO THE END OF YOUR LIFE...TO BE SAVED.

-- Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough,

and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

-- Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
OCTOBER23 said:
WHY THIS CONDITIONAL WORD INSTEAD OF A CONCRETE WORD.
Click to expand...

There is nothingconditional about what the Lord Jesus said to them who were baptized with water here:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

In this verse the Greek word translated "believes" and the Greek word translated "has" are both in the "present" tense.

In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:

"The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."​

Therefore, John 5:24 is saying that those who were believing at the time the Lord Jesus spoke those words had already received eternal life. That is what is meant as something being "viewed as occurring in actual time."

So once a person believes he receives eternal life. Anything which happens to anyone after he believes cannot contribute in any way to that person's receiving eternal life. Since a believer receives eternal life before a drop of water ever touches him then we can know that submitting to the rite of water baptism contributes nothing to anyone's salvation.
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Jerry Shugart said:
There is nothingconditional about what the Lord Jesus said to them who were baptized with water here:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

In this verse the Greek word translated "believes" and the Greek word translated "has" are both in the "present" tense.

In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:

"The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."​

Therefore, John 5:24 is saying that those who were believing at the time the Lord Jesus spoke those words had already received eternal life. That is what is meant as something being "viewed as occurring in actual time."

So once a person believes he receives eternal life. Anything which happens to anyone after he believes cannot contribute in any way to that person's receiving eternal life. Since a believer receives eternal life before a drop of water ever touches him then we can know that submitting to the rite of water baptism contributes nothing to anyone's salvation.
Click to expand...

You are wrong.

Many of those who ate of the Passover and who crossed the Red Sea, were destroyed because of their committing the sins worthy of death in the wilderness.

People do not receive the Holy Spirit of eternal life upon their first believing----

Act 8:5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
Act 8:6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
Act 8:7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
Act 8:8 And there was great joy in that city.
Act 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
Act 8:10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
Act 8:11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Act 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Act 8:19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Act 8:21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
Act 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
Act 8:23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

Judas---

Act 1:16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
Act 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
Act 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.


Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

LA
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
All you prove is that you deny what is written at John 3:14-15.

And that is why you just IGNORED IT!
Click to expand...

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
SaulToPaul said:
1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Click to expand...

All you are doing is trying your best to prove that what is said here is not correct:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​
 
D

Danoh

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
All you are doing is trying your best to prove that what is said here is not correct:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​
Click to expand...

In other words - whosoever agreeth with Jerry.

Nice how Jerry turns a person's difference with what Jerry is asserting as disagreeing with the Lord.

What we have in Jerry is a religious despot.

Jerry, please drop dead ("get lost" - in case you're as old and set in your rheumatoid ways as you consistently come across) get lost for a while, and reflect on you god complex, you religious cyber bully.
 
OCTOBER23

OCTOBER23

New member
JERRY said,

There is nothing conditional about what the Lord Jesus said to them who were baptized with water here:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me

has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
-----------------------------------------------------------------
IT IS CONDITIONAL

WHAT IF THE PERSON STOPS BELIEVING GOD ????

Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands,
and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,
and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;
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seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
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7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected,

and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
=======================================================
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
OCTOBER23 said:
IT IS CONDITIONAL

WHAT IF THE PERSON STOPS BELIEVING GOD ????
Click to expand...

Let us look at the following words of the Lord Jesus again:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

Those Jews who believed had already been given eternal life (1 Jn.5:11) and this is what the Lord Jesus said about them:

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:28).​

The Jews who were baptized with water received eternal life the moment when they believed and the Lord Jesus said that they would never perish.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Lazy afternoon said:
Believing is not a one time event.
Click to expand...

The Jews were given eternal life the moment when they believed. And here is what the Lord Jesus said to those to whom He gave eternal life:

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:28).​
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
All you are doing is trying your best to prove that what is said here is not correct:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​
Click to expand...

How did you purify yourself, so that you are as pure as the Lord?
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Jerry Shugart said:
Let us look at the following words of the Lord Jesus again:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

Those Jews who believed had already been given eternal life (1 Jn.5:11) and this is what the Lord Jesus said about them:

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:28).​

The Jews who were baptized with water received eternal life the moment when they believed and the Lord Jesus said that they would never perish.
Click to expand...


ok, point please ?
 
OCTOBER23

OCTOBER23

New member
JERRY said,

Let us look at the following words of the Lord Jesus again:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
Those Jews who believed had already been given eternal life (1 Jn.5:11) and this is what the Lord Jesus said about them:
"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:28).
The Jews who were baptized with water received eternal life the moment when they believed and the Lord Jesus said that they would never perish.
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JERRY, GOOD TRY BUT NO CIGAR :cigar:

A BRIDGE FACES BOTH WAY - FORWARD AND BACKWARD
A MAN CAN GO FORWARD TOWARD ETERNAL LIFE WHEN JESUS GIVES IT AT THE RESURRECTION
OR....
A MAN CAN GO BACKWARD AND BE ENCOMPASSED BY SIN.

eg .... Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition;
but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

-- YA GOTTA KEEP BELIEVING AND IF YOU STOP BELIEVING AND TURN BACK...........

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:

but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him,

which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
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NO ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED BALONEY.... YA GOTTA KEEP THE FAITH AND WORK AT IT.
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