Isaiah 49:14-51:3 and John 7:1-8:59

[BenAvraham]

ISAIAH 49:14-51:3

Israel cries out “The LORD hath forsaken me and forgotten me” but the prophet through the Holy Spirit assures the people, NO, the LORD has NOT forsaken you. There is a big difference between, “abandonment, forgetfulness, and chastisement”. The fact that YHVH has punished his people does not mean that He has abandoned Israel. When a father chastises his son or daughter, does that mean he no longer loves him or her? Does he cast them out of the house? Or say, “You are no longer my son or daughter?”

No, of course not, Scripture tells us that a father who loves his children will discipline them. We can say the same with YHVH and “Am Israel” He loves his people, and so, HE will discipline them. Yes, he cast them out of the land, but in the lands where they went to resettle, they continued to live and spread the teaching of the ONE GOD (Echad). We are loved by our heavenly Father, even when it hurts.

JOHN 7:1-8:59

Some are a bit confused when Yeshua says to his brothers, “You guys go up to Yerushalayim to Sukkot, I will not YET go up. He did NOT LIE, (as some critics try to say). He was planning to go up, but not at that time. Remember that the celebration of Sukkot (Tabernacles) is a 7-day celebration, culminating on the 8th day, “Hoshanah Raba” It is possible that his brothers and his disciples went during the beginning of the festivities, and Yeshua waited until the end, the 8th day.

It was on the 8th day that the priests brought up water from the pool of Siloam, and Yeshua took this opportunity to say to the people; “If anyone is thirsty, let him keep coming to me and drink, whoever puts his trust in me, as the scripture says, rivers of living water will flow from his inmost being”

We can remember the time when “B’nei Israel” (the children of Israel) were in the desert, and they got water from a ROCK. The ROCK symbolizes Yeshua, the ROCK of ages, and the LIVING water. Water flowed from the rock so the Israelites and the cattle could drink as much as they wanted.

The water that Yeshua talks about is our inner life through a renewed spirit, remember that He also told the woman of Samaria the same thing. It was to her that he revealed himself as Mashiach openly. So, when we read the WORD of God, and listen to music that praises HIM, we are receiving “living water.”


Shalom.

I will be traveling to Miami, FL on August 29th to spend time with my other kids and grandchildren. It's been about 3 years since I have been with them, so I probably won't be able to write these commentaries until I get back to my PC here on October 15th.

 

[Ps82]

ISAIAH 49:14-51:3

Israel cries out “The LORD hath forsaken me and forgotten me” but the prophet through the Holy Spirit assures the people, NO, the LORD has NOT forsaken you. There is a big difference between, “abandonment, forgetfulness, and chastisement”. The fact that YHVH has punished his people does not mean that He has abandoned Israel. When a father chastises his son or daughter, does that mean he no longer loves him or her? Does he cast them out of the house? Or say, “You are no longer my son or daughter?”

No, of course not, Scripture tells us that a father who loves his children will discipline them. We can say the same with YHVH and “Am Israel” He loves his people, and so, HE will discipline them. Yes, he cast them out of the land, but in the lands where they went to resettle, they continued to live and spread the teaching of the ONE GOD (Echad). We are loved by our heavenly Father, even when it hurts.

Amen

JOHN 7:1-8:59

Some are a bit confused when Yeshua says to his brothers, “You guys go up to Yerushalayim to Sukkot, I will not YET go up. He did NOT LIE, (as some critics try to say). He was planning to go up, but not at that time. Remember that the celebration of Sukkot (Tabernacles) is a 7-day celebration, culminating on the 8th day, “Hoshanah Raba” It is possible that his brothers and his disciples went during the beginning of the festivities, and Yeshua waited until the end, the 8th day.

It was on the 8th day that the priests brought up water from the pool of Siloam, and Yeshua took this opportunity to say to the people; “If anyone is thirsty, let him keep coming to me and drink, whoever puts his trust in me, as the scripture says, rivers of living water will flow from his inmost being”

Good points

We can remember the time when “B’nei Israel” (the children of Israel) were in the desert, and they got water from a ROCK. The ROCK symbolizes Yeshua, the ROCK of ages, and the LIVING water. Water flowed from the rock so the Israelites and the cattle could drink as much as they wanted.

Love this topic. Why? I believe great symbolism was taking place at the Rock O Horeb. Each time Moses stood there prophesy was being given regarding the Messiah. See what you think of these:
First time Moses struck the ROCK once representing how our Messiah would die in order to provide the eternal life.
Second time while Moses and Aaron stood on the ROCK, Moses struck the ROCK twice and said, "Must WE provide the water?"
The first event was done properly but the seconded time Moses presented a symbolic falsehood.

QUESTION: If Moses said WE, then who were the WE? Obviously they were Moses and Aaron; so, what's the mystery?
In Exodus readers are told that Moses represented God before Pharaoh and Aaron represented his prophet!!! There you go. The symbolism was Moses and Aaron represented God and his prophet when they stood on the ROCK.
The striking of the ROCK twice and saying,"Must we provide the eternal water [life] meant that in the day of the Messiah not only God the Son would die but so would his prophet.

Now, you can better understand why John the Baptist [Jesus's prophet] asked are you THE ONE or is there another? Jesus told him not to take offense... You see, John died because of Moses's misspoken words which included the prophet John in the WE !

Is it any wonder that Satan asked and argued with an angel of the Lord for the possession of Moses's dead body?
Moses had committed a grievous sin that day at Horeb and was soon punished by not being able to go into the Promised Land. Good thing that our LORD loved Moses like a friend for HE redeemed him.

I sometimes wonder if Jesus said has been no greater man than John. ... is because John the Baptist was the predestined prophet of God and had to lose his life at the time of Jesus in order to fulfill the mistake Moses made. Just wondering here.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

The water that Yeshua talks about is our inner life through a renewed spirit, remember that He also told the woman of Samaria the same thing. It was to her that he revealed himself as Mashiach openly. So, when we read the WORD of God, and listen to music that praises HIM, we are receiving “living water.”

I love that event. Yes, the symbolism of literal [H2O] water, which we mortals need to have replenished to sustain our lives on earth, is compared to the eternal life which Jesus was going to provide to his followers for his eternal kingdom.

Shalom.

I will be traveling to Miami, FL on August 29th to spend time with my other kids and grandchildren. It's been about 3 years since I have been with them, so I probably won't be able to write these commentaries until I get back to my PC here on October 15th.

Have a safe trip. I hope you will check back to this thread.

 

[Clete]

ISAIAH 49:14-51:3

Israel cries out “The LORD hath forsaken me and forgotten me” but the prophet through the Holy Spirit assures the people, NO, the LORD has NOT forsaken you. There is a big difference between, “abandonment, forgetfulness, and chastisement”. The fact that YHVH has punished his people does not mean that He has abandoned Israel. When a father chastises his son or daughter, does that mean he no longer loves him or her? Does he cast them out of the house? Or say, “You are no longer my son or daughter?”

No, of course not, Scripture tells us that a father who loves his children will discipline them. We can say the same with YHVH and “Am Israel” He loves his people, and so, HE will discipline them. Yes, he cast them out of the land, but in the lands where they went to resettle, they continued to live and spread the teaching of the ONE GOD (Echad). We are loved by our heavenly Father, even when it hurts.

JOHN 7:1-8:59

Some are a bit confused when Yeshua says to his brothers, “You guys go up to Yerushalayim to Sukkot, I will not YET go up. He did NOT LIE, (as some critics try to say).

Critics and those who can read the bible for themselves and who are intellectually honest about what it says. It wasn't sin but it was an intentional deception.

He was planning to go up, but not at that time.

Then the truth would have been for Him to say that, right? He intentionally wanted them to think that He was not coming at that time and then the moment they leave, He leaves at that same time but in secret.

John 7:10 But when His brothers had gone up, then He also went up to the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.​

Remember that the celebration of Sukkot (Tabernacles) is a 7-day celebration, culminating on the 8th day, “Hoshanah Raba” It is possible that his brothers and his disciples went during the beginning of the festivities, and Yeshua waited until the end, the 8th day.

No, it flat out is not possible! This is called an argument from silence and it is a logical fallacy for a really excellent reasons. With it, you can argue anything you desire to believe. If this is how you do bible study then your doctrine can be anything you like and nothing that you don't.

The error your making here is in the belief that it is always a sin to tell someone an untruth. It is not. I very strongly recommend you watch the following video. It's part of a series of videos on the subject and it is very very informative...

It was on the 8th day that the priests brought up water from the pool of Siloam, and Yeshua took this opportunity to say to the people; “If anyone is thirsty, let him keep coming to me and drink, whoever puts his trust in me, as the scripture says, rivers of living water will flow from his inmost being”

We can remember the time when “B’nei Israel” (the children of Israel) were in the desert, and they got water from a ROCK. The ROCK symbolizes Yeshua, the ROCK of ages, and the LIVING water. Water flowed from the rock so the Israelites and the cattle could drink as much as they wanted.

The water that Yeshua talks about is our inner life through a renewed spirit, remember that He also told the woman of Samaria the same thing. It was to her that he revealed himself as Mashiach openly. So, when we read the WORD of God, and listen to music that praises HIM, we are receiving “living water.”


Shalom.

All true enough but not relevant to whether Jesus told His disciples the truth about when He intended to go up to Jerusalem.

Incidentally, you can write your posts anyway you like but no one here is impressed by your sprinkling in the some Hebrew here and there. It neither changes the meaning of the text nor clarifies your point. It's just ostentation, as far as I can tell.

I will be traveling to Miami, FL on August 29th to spend time with my other kids and grandchildren. It's been about 3 years since I have been with them, so I probably won't be able to write these commentaries until I get back to my PC here on October 15th.

Thanks for the heads up. That big a delay would surely have made several of us think you had just vanished!

Enjoy your trip!

 

[Clete]

Love this topic. Why? I believe great symbolism was taking place at the Rock O Horeb. Each time Moses stood there prophesy was being given regarding the Messiah. See what you think of these:
First time Moses struck the ROCK once representing how our Messiah would die in order to provide the eternal life.
Second time while Moses and Aaron stood on the ROCK, Moses struck the ROCK twice and said, "Must WE provide the water?"
The first event was done properly but the seconded time Moses presented a symbolic falsehood.

QUESTION: If Moses said WE, then who were the WE? Obviously they were Moses and Aaron; so, what's the mystery?
In Exodus readers are told that Moses represented God before Pharaoh and Aaron represented his prophet!!! There you go. The symbolism was Moses and Aaron represented God and his prophet when they stood on the ROCK.
The striking of the ROCK twice and saying,"Must we provide the eternal water [life] meant that in the day of the Messiah not only God the Son would die but so would his prophet.

Now, you can better understand why John the Baptist [Jesus's prophet] asked are you THE ONE or is there another? Jesus told him not to take offense... You see, John died because of Moses's misspoken words which included the prophet John in the WE !

Is it any wonder that Satan asked and argued with an angel of the Lord for the possession of Moses's dead body?
Moses had committed a grievous sin that day at Horeb and was soon punished by not being able to go into the Promised Land. Good thing that our LORD loved Moses like a friend for HE redeemed him.

I sometimes wonder if Jesus said has been no greater man than John. ... is because John the Baptist was the predestined prophet of God and had to lose his life at the time of Jesus in order to fulfill the mistake Moses made. Just wondering here.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

My thoughts are that you look for gnats to strain out where there are none. The problem had nothing to do with the word "we"! For crying out loud! I mean that is just literally silly.

The problem is that God told them what to do and how to do it and they disobeyed Him.

First time....

Exodus 17:6 Behold, I will stand before you there on the rock in Horeb; and you shall strike the rock, and water will come out of it, that the people may drink.”​

​

And Moses did so.... ​

​

Second time....

Number 20:7 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 8 “Take the rod; you and your brother Aaron gather the congregation together. Speak to the rock before their eyes, and it will yield its water; thus you shall bring water for them out of the rock, and give drink to the congregation and their animals.” 9 So Moses took the rod from before the Lord as He commanded him.​

​

10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly together before the rock; and he said to them, “Hear now, you rebels! Must we bring water for you out of this rock?” 11 Then Moses lifted his hand and struck the rock twice with his rod; and water came out abundantly, and the congregation and their animals drank.​

​

12 Then the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not believe Me, to hallow Me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them.”​

Notice in verse 8 where God Himself uses the vernacular of "you shall bring water for them...". So, no, it hasn't anything to do with them saying "must WE bring water...". They were, after all, the ones standing there in front of everyone performing the miracle, as prophets sometimes do.

What you got right is that the water is Christ who was struck (i.e. He was killed) ONCE for all (Romans 6:10). What you miss is that now we need but speak and the cleansing flood washes us clean. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation (Romans 8:10).