Is Time Affected By Expansion Of The Universe?

[bob b]

It appears that most people are coming around to the belief that the universe expanded from a condition where it was once very much smaller than its current size.

It may surprise many creationists that scripture states many times that God "stretched out the heavens", and this may mean that scientists are essentially correct in proposing something akin to the Big Bang.

I am curious about the opinions of people as to what effect, if any, such an expansion might have on the variable of time.

For instance, when the universe was 100 times smaller than it is now would time go by 100 times (or some non-linear function) faster or would it go by at the same rate it does today?

 

[smuda]

Einstein and Time

Einstein and Time

Einstein's answer overturned long-held ideas about the nature of time as a steady, continuous progression of events from past to present to future. Although it's hard to believe, there is no single "master clock" for the entire universe. Time does not progress at the same rate for everyone, everywhere. Instead, Einstein showed that how fast time progresses depends on how fast the clock measuring time is moving. The faster an object travels, the more slowly time passes for that object, as measured by a stationary observer. Perhaps even more astonishing, one person's past could theoretically be another's future—which is why Einstein described the past, present and future as "persistent illusions."

 

[badp]

If the universe is as old as "Big Bangers" claim it is, then that contradicts the Bible's notion that it was created in (6) 24-hour days. I believe the verse about God stretching out the heavens refers to Him pulling the light out of far away stars toward the Earth.

Also, time is not a function of size. Time is a concept. It cannot be speeded up or slowed down, only the events which are measured by time can be slowed down or speeded up.

Regardless, Creationists have to be careful about conceding that the "Big Bang" occurred. Creation could have occurred in an explosive motion, but that is NOT the same thing as the "Big Bang" theory as held by so-called "geniuses" like Steven Hawking.

 

[badp]

Einstein's answer overturned long-held ideas about the nature of time as a steady, continuous progression of events from past to present to future.

You're forgetting that Einstein's theory doesn't hold up under all conditions.

 

[Shalom]

It appears that most people are coming around to the belief that the universe expanded from a condition where it was once very much smaller than its current size.

It may surprise many creationists that scripture states many times that God "stretched out the heavens", and this may mean that scientists are essentially correct in proposing something akin to the Big Bang.

I am curious about the opinions of people as to what effect, if any, such an expansion might have on the variable of time.

For instance, when the universe was 100 times smaller than it is now would time go by 100 times (or some non-linear function) faster or would it go by at the same rate it does today?

I have heard of the belief that the universe expanded and I think that it could very well be true. I have a friend who is stuck in the old earth creationist camp because of the unexplainable light from the stars in our view. If everything was stretched from a point then the light would already be there right? I heard it this way and thought that made a lot of sense.

I think that time would go by at the same rate it does now. I dont believe time can be changed.

 

[SillyBob]

It appears that most people are coming around to the belief that the universe expanded from a condition where it was once very much smaller than its current size.

It may surprise many creationists that scripture states many times that God "stretched out the heavens", and this may mean that scientists are essentially correct in proposing something akin to the Big Bang.

I am curious about the opinions of people as to what effect, if any, such an expansion might have on the variable of time.

For instance, when the universe was 100 times smaller than it is now would time go by 100 times (or some non-linear function) faster or would it go by at the same rate it does today?

Simple, NO!

 

[Shalom]

Time does not progress at the same rate for everyone, everywhere. Instead, Einstein showed that how fast time progresses depends on how fast the clock measuring time is moving.

So if I speed up my clock at work tomorrow, then I can just tell my boss "Time does not progress at the same rate for me as it does you, I have already worked 8 hours by my time. I'm going home." :chuckle:

 

[Evoken]

If the universe is as old as "Big Bangers" claim it is, then that contradicts the Bible's notion that it was created in (6) 24-hour days.

You can't operate with an a priori assumption that The Bible is true. You must examine the evidence without the intention to reach an assumed conclusion. If the conclusion you reach happens to support The Bible then that is good, The Bible is validated and gains credibility. But if the evidence does not lends support to what The Bible says, and points to things contrary to what it affirms, then there is no reason to lend credibility it.

Every assertion The Bible makes about how God made the universe is an hypothesis that must be tested against reality and see if it matches the evidence. Just like any other hypothesis is tested. Assuming that The Bible is true and then forcing the evidence to support it is neither a scientific nor an honest aproach.


Valz

 

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

so-called "geniuses" like Steven Hawking.

"So-called":rotfl:

This has to be one of the most petty slaps against the opposition I have ever read. Here is a person who through his singular intellect has contributed more to theoretical physics than anyone else during his life time, and here we have this pathetic 25 year-old pissant who feels so challenged by the conclusions of physics that he is driven to denigrate the man. I know, I know, it's nothing but the fatuous sputtering of someone unable to come to grips with the implications of science, but my god, it's so stunningly puerile it begs disbelief.

 

[badp]

I'm 24, actually. But my bday is coming up very soon! Try staying on topic next time, will ya?

 

[badp]

Every assertion The Bible makes about how God made the universe is an hypothesis that must be tested against reality and see if it matches the evidence. Just like any other hypothesis is tested. Assuming that The Bible is true and then forcing the evidence to support it is neither a scientific nor an honest aproach.

You're absolutely correct. The Bible says that God stretched out the heavens (hypothesis). The empirical data seems to match very well with that assertion.

 

[smuda]

badp, yes I did read here-and-there that Dr. Einstein was wrong in some of his work. I'm not so much up on it.

Shalom, what you wanna tell your Boss is that, 'There is no time, time is a concept developed by man for his own convenience."

As for you Biblicists "expansion" I just read in an interview with a 'Quantum Cosmologist' that the entire universe expanded in the first one-billionth second...something like that. Did you know that they think that the rate the universe is expanding is accelerating? Boy you can sure choke me in the shallow water before I get too deep. :dizzy:

 

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

Try staying on topic next time, will ya?

:rotfl: Gee I wonder why you'd say this. :rotfl:

In any event, you're the one who brought up the credibility of Hawking. Don't want to be taken to task for making asinine statements, then don't make them.

 

[Evoken]

You're absolutely correct. The Bible says that God stretched out the heavens (hypothesis). The empirical data seems to match very well with that assertion.

That would be of course the heavens of the earth, not the universe. The sky that the hebrew cosmology believed was like a curtain or a solid dome. You must be careful of not reading modern cosmology into The Bible. You must keep in mind the context and era in which it was written.


Valz

 

[badp]

badp, yes I did read here-and-there that Dr. Einstein was wrong in some of his work. I'm not so much up on it.

Shalom, what you wanna tell your Boss is that, 'There is no time, time is a concept developed by man for his own convenience."

As for you Biblicists "expansion" I just read in an interview with a 'Quantum Cosmologist' that the entire universe expanded in the first one-billionth second...something like that. Did you know that they think that the rate the universe is expanding is accelerating? Boy you can sure choke me in the shallow water before I get too deep. :dizzy:

I'd like to know how this "Quantum Cosmologist" came up with 1 billionth of a second :nono: As for the universe expanding faster, that seems to me to be a function of entropy. As objects emit gravitational waves, their mass decreases, which causes the gravity between objects to diminish and they move farther apart (Just a guess.)

 

[thelaqachisnext]

....

Every assertion The Bible makes about how God made the universe is an hypothesis that must be tested against reality and see if it matches the evidence. ...

Valz

Aren't you presumptous to assume man is on the 'reality' side of it and has anything to measure something that he cannot even prove is 'real'?

We live in the shadow, only, of the real, and cannot touch, feel, smell, experience or measure that true Reality -not until we get out of quarantine, anyway.

 

[godrulz]

Big bang is a bust, a theory contrary to creation science.

Relativity has limitations.

Hawkings is a theoretical physicist, not a philosopher with all of life's answers. He has been wrong on major, personal positions before. There is a difference between theoretical speculation and fact.

Time is not space nor is it a thing. Regardless of the size of an expanding universe or not, unidirectional time still has consistent intervals and instants. The present is real.


www.icr.org has an author who wrote a book on creation and the star light issue. There are plausible explanations consistent with young universe creationism.

 

[Ps82]

It appears that most people are coming around to the belief that the universe expanded from a condition where it was once very much smaller than its current size.

It may surprise many creationists that scripture states many times that God "stretched out the heavens", and this may mean that scientists are essentially correct in proposing something akin to the Big Bang.

I am curious about the opinions of people as to what effect, if any, such an expansion might have on the variable of time.

For instance, when the universe was 100 times smaller than it is now would time go by 100 times (or some non-linear function) faster or would it go by at the same rate it does today?

Hi Bob b,
I have never really scripturally researched the ideas I am about to express ... so this is an off my head pondering ... but I think it is interesting. Please some of you well read scientist point out where I am going all-wrong.

FIRST, I am prone to accept a Big Bang event. I think Gen.1 describes it in the first few verses. I have begun reading a book called Wrinkles in Time ... and it was saying where cosmologists are discovering that they were wrong in their assumptions that the galaxies would have evolved in a random arrangement ... for they are finding that the expanding universe is very much logically ordered. This smacks of a divine intellectual creator ... a bit.

This book compared the entire universe to a large can of foam, which is made up of individual bubbles. The arrangement of the order of the galaxies is compared to the arrangement of the juncture of the bubble walls within the foam. The emptiness inside the bubbles is compared to the seemingly empty invisible space between the galaxies. There is more invisible space than there is visible matter in the foam and the universe.

So now, scientists have begun to value the invisible areas of the darkness of space to be something more worthy of study than the visible matter.

Gen.1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and the darkness was upon the face of the deep... And the (invisible) Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
MY INTERPRETATION:
In the beginning God ...
And the solid visible created matter to come was without form, and void; and the darkness was upon the face of the deep of infinity and eternity. And the invisible infinite Spirit of God moved upon the face of the deep morass of infinity that filled everything with its omni-presence like spreading waters of life.

My conclusion is that the invisible dark areas of creations are just as important as the visible things brought forth out of it.

Concerning time and the effects, which the flowing expansion of the invisible waters of darkness and the spreading of the created visible matter have on it., I say: It does affect time as we know it on earth... so this is what makes time relative.

I have pondered that God may even use another way to measure time for mankind - in conjunction with revolving and rotating of planets ... This third unit of time measurement would also be affected by the expansion of the universe due to its affect on rotating and revolving.

I have pondered a third unit of time called - "generations". It is a much more personal unit of measurement and marks off time of work and reproducing according to the times of humanity and not according to just heavenly bodies.

TIME:
rotating earth = days
revolving earth = years
human times of work and reproducing = generations

Consider the effects of an expanding universe upon these things.

Smaller universe = faster rotations of the earth with shorter days and higher tallies when counting
Smaller universe = faster revolutions of the earth around the sun and shorter years with higher tallies when counting.
Smaller universe = more days and years to count to mark off generations of work and reproduction

Therefore Adam lived to be hundreds of years old according to this 'fast-pace-counting of time'


But by the time of Abraham - Joseph ... the expansion of the universe had yielded slower rotations and revolutions and therefore longer days and years resulted - which resulted in a 'slower counting of time units'. Therefore people died before the high numbers of days and years could be counted.

For example
In Gen.1, the mornings and evenings of the first 6 days may have been fast and furious events, and may not have even been counted by rotations and revolutions at all ... but may have been more like a big bang event ...

While the generations of the LORD (Gen.2), when the LORD created the sun, moon, and man and then planted a garden within the creation were slightly longer due to the marking of time by the sun and moon. But the generations of the LORD may have been measured in larger numbers than the generations of Adam that followed the expulsion from the garden ... due to the expansion of the created universe. One day of man may have been more like 1000 years to the LORD in the Garden.

The generations of Adam through the generations of Methuselah were counted in higher numbers than the generational days of Noah and Abraham ... The generations of Abraham through Joseph were counted with higher numbers than the generations from Joseph - King David. And from Jesus to 19 century ... the generations to work and reproduce were even shorter.

In these latter days of the 20th and 21st centuries ... the days of our lives do seem to have increased slightly, but I think that this is due to the increase in knowledge in the health fields instead of a shrinking of the universe with faster days and years.

Now, I know that people will argue that if rotating and revolving of things were sped up or slowed down even minutely, then the universe would self-destruct, and life could not exist as we know it ... but I say that God is in control of this BIG PICTURE and knows the times of things and for things, and there is to come a need for God to step in and personally control things … and then renew things.

 

[Nick M]

Einstein's answer overturned long-held ideas about the nature of time as a steady, continuous progression of events from past to present to future. Although it's hard to believe, there is no single "master clock" for the entire universe. Time does not progress at the same rate for everyone, everywhere. Instead, Einstein showed that how fast time progresses depends on how fast the clock measuring time is moving. The faster an object travels, the more slowly time passes for that object, as measured by a stationary observer. Perhaps even more astonishing, one person's past could theoretically be another's future—which is why Einstein described the past, present and future as "persistent illusions."

Which is why we can predict who will win the superbowl.

 

[Carpaint]

:think: Ive been saying this for years. Science usually does just this starting with a theory and trying to prove it . Im not against science but the conclusion should not be dismissed if it dosen't match the theory.

You must examine the evidence without the intention to reach an assumed conclusion.