I don't usually use names, but I'm calling :forgiven: out.
Is this what the brick and mortar church has become?
This was the ultimate response to this picture.
I am adding my stance on sin now. I have been accused of saying Jesus is ok with Sin.
This is my 10 point reason for my stance.
I welcome any debate of any of it's points. It is man,age and open to full attack. I typed this.
I agree that by Moses Homosexuality is indeed a sin. And I agree that Paul legitimately talks about homosexuality in Romans.
However, I do not agree with the brick and mortars approach to homosexuality.
I:
The law has imprisoned all under sin that Christ's grace might abound. If we transgress one point of the law, we are guilty of transgressing all of it. Jesus took on all the sins of the world, though He didn't sin, that He could declare the ungodly (Romans 5*But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.) righteous. We were saved in sin, not after sin. I believe in sanctification, but I believe God's work in people's lives differs for His purpose. This means that the believing, struggling homosexual is protected from judgment by the covering of Christ's Love.
II:
In Romans, Paul spells out reprobate minds with women and men unnaturally used. The problem is that the context of this verse is lost with rapid assumption and judgment. This is a coupling of the verses that warn us to not join the body (BoC) to a prostitute. There was this thing Paul had to contend with called temple prostitution. It was where Gentiles use to have sex on the alter of a church with the person they felt was closest to God. They believed that they were getting closer to God by doing so. The focus on one group of sinners is a way of taking the message away from Pauls actual message to be faithful to Jesus (not commit spiritual adultery)
III:
The following chapter where Paul is referencing temple prostitution is immediately followed by this..........
Romans 2
2*Therefore, any one of you[a] who judges is without excuse. For when you judge another, you condemn yourself, since you, the judge, do the same things. 2*We know that God’s judgment on those who do such things is based on the truth. 3*Do you really think—anyone of you who judges those who do such things yet do the same—that you will escape God’s judgment? 4*Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, restraint, and patience, not recognizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? 5*But because of your hardness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment is revealed. 6*He will repay each one according to his works 7*eternal life to those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality; 8*but wrath and indignation to those who are self-seeking and disobey the truth but are obeying unrighteousness; 9*affliction and distress for every human being who does evil, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek; 10*but glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does what is good, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek. 11*There is no favoritism with God.
There are words for the struggling and words for the judgmental in here. In Truth (Jesus) we are constantly reminded of the fact that we are sinners. We are only free from sin when we see that Jesus Love and Sacrifice are the only Hope for our proclamation of Hope.
Remember, if we transgress one point of the 613 laws of Moses, we are guilty of them all! This unifies all sinners in their EQUAL need for Jesus.
IV:
Jesus continually warns us against carnal judgment of others, and that when we find condemnation in ourselves, He is there as our Freely Given Coat of righteousness, though our body is sinfully filthy underneath.
1 Peter 3:21
21*Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the pledge of a good conscience toward God) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Note Peter even explains that the baptism/provision of righteousness is not a washing of the filthy flesh!
V:
If you don't understand the level of Reprobate behavior that the early Gentile church had, you have failed to study biblical history and context. Paul reprimanded a man in Corinth for sleeping with his Step Mom. He then told people not to eat with him or any of his kind. He writes a second time on the matter and explains he was testing the church.
As one unified body in Christ, he was seeing if the church would forfeit it's spiritual pride and admit it's only hope in Christ's grace. He goes on to explain that he used a device of the devil to test the church. That device would be a mystery, but Paul had chastised Peter in Galatians for refusing to eat with the gentile sinners. He was explaining that shunning sinful humanity is a device of Satan!
VI:
John Says:
1 John 1:8
8*If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Deceiver is what devil means. We become Devils to ourselves when we count ourselves sinless. And we become a Satan (Adversary) to God when we shun anyone as we are all a sinner that is only counted sinless by His perfect sacrifice.
We are frustrating Jesus Grace. Some would argue that this is the unpardonable sin. How plain is YOU WITHOUT SIN, CAST THE FIRST Stone? How much can "Judge not lest Ye be Judged" be twisted.
We are all equally in need for God's redemption. To say, so and so is more sinful than I, is to be as the Pharasee that said, "thank God I am not like them. The sinner (tax collector) beat their chest and pleaded mercy because of how sinful they were. Who did Jesus justify, and who did He rebuke in the parable?
VII:
I am not homosexual, but I have homosexual friends. They are indeed that way. They are disgusted by sexuality with the opposite sex as I am with the same sex. They can't pray the homo away. Some do, but others can't. Why else would God leave them struggling then to humiliate them to their continual need of Him and to test the BoC's measure of Pride?
VIII.
By focusing on one kind of Sin the church has avoided the dirty topic of spiritual, Temple prostitution. Only Jesus is our authority. His words and teachings are sovereign in scripture. Yet doctrines of extra biblical men supersede Jesus in many Brick and mortar establishments. This is spiritual idolatry and spiritual homosexuality as members of the bride and body are married to one another's teachings, instead of Jesus' perfect teachings.
IX:
To judge any that Christ died for (That's All), is to Judge the ONE that died for them. Jesus (YHWH) was accused before the Father (YHWH) of every sin ever committed and to be committed. Jesus was exonerated as He was Sinless and not responsible for our sins. He only did that for each of us out of Love. When we judge a human being spiritually, we are judging God!
X.
The very fact that Homosexuality is in Leviticus should be a tip to any follower of Jesus that understands that Jesus tied up the strong man and emptied Sheol by fulfilling the law for us, that our transgressions would no longer condemn us!
Good is good and evil is evil. God is Good, and we are evil. We are now good by Love alone (Believing in God's sacrifice In our sinful place). When we call anyone evil by precepts of Moses, we are calling God evil!
Wake up Church. The devil is shriveling up our God given Seal of unconditional LOVE!
Galatians 3Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Justification through Faith
3*You foolish Galatians! Who has hypnotized you,[a] before whose eyes Jesus Christ was vividly portrayed as crucified? 2*I only want to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law or by hearing with faith?[c] 3*Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now going to be made complete by the flesh?[d]4*Did you suffer so much for nothing—if in fact it was for nothing? 5*So then, does God supply you with the Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law or by hearing with faith?[e]
6*Just as Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness,[f] 7*then understand that those who have faith are Abraham’s sons. 8*Now the Scripture saw in advance that God would justify the Gentiles by faith and told the good news ahead of time to Abraham, saying, All the nations will be blessed through you.[g] 9*So those who have faith are blessed with Abraham, who had faith.[h]
Law and Promise
10*For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, because it is written: Everyone who does not continue doing everything written in the book of the law is cursed. 11*Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because the righteous will live by faith.[j] 12*But the law is not based on faith; instead, the one who does these things will live by them.[k] 13*Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, because it is written: Everyone who is hung on a tree is cursed.[l] 14*The purpose was that the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles by Christ Jesus, so that we could receive the promised Spirit through faith.
15*Brothers, I’m using a human illustration.[m] No one sets aside or makes additions to even a human covenant[n] that has been ratified. 16*Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say “and to seeds,” as though referring to many, but referring to one, and to your seed,[o] who is Christ. 17*And I say this: The law, which came 430 years later, does not revoke a covenant that was previously ratified by God[p] and cancel the promise. 18*For if the inheritance is from the law, it is no longer from the promise; but God granted it to Abraham through the promise.
The Purpose of the Law
19*Why then was the law given? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise was made would come. The law was put into effect through angels by means of a mediator. 20*Now a mediator is not for just one person, but God is one.21*Is the law therefore contrary to God’s promises? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that was able to give life, then righteousness would certainly be by the law. 22*But the Scripture has imprisoned everything under sin’s power,[q] so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23*Before this faith came, we were confined under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed. 24*The law, then, was our guardian[r] until Christ, so that we could be justified by faith. 25*But since that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26*for you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Sons and Heirs
27*For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ like a garment. 28*There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29*And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, heirs according to the promise.
Romans 4
4*Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed. 5*But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous,[e] his faith is credited for righteousness.
Matthew 7
Do not judge, so that you won’t be judged. 2 For with the judgment you use,[a] you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye but don’t notice the log in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and look, there’s a log in your eye? 5 Hypocrite! First take the log out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. 6 Don’t give what is holy to dogs or toss your pearls before pigs, or they will trample them with their feet, turn, and tear you to pieces.
Galatians 2:21King James Version (KJV)
21*I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
Is this what the brick and mortar church has become?
This was the ultimate response to this picture.
I am adding my stance on sin now. I have been accused of saying Jesus is ok with Sin.
This is my 10 point reason for my stance.
I welcome any debate of any of it's points. It is man,age and open to full attack. I typed this.
I agree that by Moses Homosexuality is indeed a sin. And I agree that Paul legitimately talks about homosexuality in Romans.
However, I do not agree with the brick and mortars approach to homosexuality.
I:
The law has imprisoned all under sin that Christ's grace might abound. If we transgress one point of the law, we are guilty of transgressing all of it. Jesus took on all the sins of the world, though He didn't sin, that He could declare the ungodly (Romans 5*But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.) righteous. We were saved in sin, not after sin. I believe in sanctification, but I believe God's work in people's lives differs for His purpose. This means that the believing, struggling homosexual is protected from judgment by the covering of Christ's Love.
II:
In Romans, Paul spells out reprobate minds with women and men unnaturally used. The problem is that the context of this verse is lost with rapid assumption and judgment. This is a coupling of the verses that warn us to not join the body (BoC) to a prostitute. There was this thing Paul had to contend with called temple prostitution. It was where Gentiles use to have sex on the alter of a church with the person they felt was closest to God. They believed that they were getting closer to God by doing so. The focus on one group of sinners is a way of taking the message away from Pauls actual message to be faithful to Jesus (not commit spiritual adultery)
III:
The following chapter where Paul is referencing temple prostitution is immediately followed by this..........
Romans 2
2*Therefore, any one of you[a] who judges is without excuse. For when you judge another, you condemn yourself, since you, the judge, do the same things. 2*We know that God’s judgment on those who do such things is based on the truth. 3*Do you really think—anyone of you who judges those who do such things yet do the same—that you will escape God’s judgment? 4*Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, restraint, and patience, not recognizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? 5*But because of your hardness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment is revealed. 6*He will repay each one according to his works 7*eternal life to those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality; 8*but wrath and indignation to those who are self-seeking and disobey the truth but are obeying unrighteousness; 9*affliction and distress for every human being who does evil, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek; 10*but glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does what is good, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek. 11*There is no favoritism with God.
There are words for the struggling and words for the judgmental in here. In Truth (Jesus) we are constantly reminded of the fact that we are sinners. We are only free from sin when we see that Jesus Love and Sacrifice are the only Hope for our proclamation of Hope.
Remember, if we transgress one point of the 613 laws of Moses, we are guilty of them all! This unifies all sinners in their EQUAL need for Jesus.
IV:
Jesus continually warns us against carnal judgment of others, and that when we find condemnation in ourselves, He is there as our Freely Given Coat of righteousness, though our body is sinfully filthy underneath.
1 Peter 3:21
21*Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the pledge of a good conscience toward God) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Note Peter even explains that the baptism/provision of righteousness is not a washing of the filthy flesh!
V:
If you don't understand the level of Reprobate behavior that the early Gentile church had, you have failed to study biblical history and context. Paul reprimanded a man in Corinth for sleeping with his Step Mom. He then told people not to eat with him or any of his kind. He writes a second time on the matter and explains he was testing the church.
As one unified body in Christ, he was seeing if the church would forfeit it's spiritual pride and admit it's only hope in Christ's grace. He goes on to explain that he used a device of the devil to test the church. That device would be a mystery, but Paul had chastised Peter in Galatians for refusing to eat with the gentile sinners. He was explaining that shunning sinful humanity is a device of Satan!
VI:
John Says:
1 John 1:8
8*If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Deceiver is what devil means. We become Devils to ourselves when we count ourselves sinless. And we become a Satan (Adversary) to God when we shun anyone as we are all a sinner that is only counted sinless by His perfect sacrifice.
We are frustrating Jesus Grace. Some would argue that this is the unpardonable sin. How plain is YOU WITHOUT SIN, CAST THE FIRST Stone? How much can "Judge not lest Ye be Judged" be twisted.
We are all equally in need for God's redemption. To say, so and so is more sinful than I, is to be as the Pharasee that said, "thank God I am not like them. The sinner (tax collector) beat their chest and pleaded mercy because of how sinful they were. Who did Jesus justify, and who did He rebuke in the parable?
VII:
I am not homosexual, but I have homosexual friends. They are indeed that way. They are disgusted by sexuality with the opposite sex as I am with the same sex. They can't pray the homo away. Some do, but others can't. Why else would God leave them struggling then to humiliate them to their continual need of Him and to test the BoC's measure of Pride?
VIII.
By focusing on one kind of Sin the church has avoided the dirty topic of spiritual, Temple prostitution. Only Jesus is our authority. His words and teachings are sovereign in scripture. Yet doctrines of extra biblical men supersede Jesus in many Brick and mortar establishments. This is spiritual idolatry and spiritual homosexuality as members of the bride and body are married to one another's teachings, instead of Jesus' perfect teachings.
IX:
To judge any that Christ died for (That's All), is to Judge the ONE that died for them. Jesus (YHWH) was accused before the Father (YHWH) of every sin ever committed and to be committed. Jesus was exonerated as He was Sinless and not responsible for our sins. He only did that for each of us out of Love. When we judge a human being spiritually, we are judging God!
X.
The very fact that Homosexuality is in Leviticus should be a tip to any follower of Jesus that understands that Jesus tied up the strong man and emptied Sheol by fulfilling the law for us, that our transgressions would no longer condemn us!
Good is good and evil is evil. God is Good, and we are evil. We are now good by Love alone (Believing in God's sacrifice In our sinful place). When we call anyone evil by precepts of Moses, we are calling God evil!
Wake up Church. The devil is shriveling up our God given Seal of unconditional LOVE!
Galatians 3Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Justification through Faith
3*You foolish Galatians! Who has hypnotized you,[a] before whose eyes Jesus Christ was vividly portrayed as crucified? 2*I only want to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law or by hearing with faith?[c] 3*Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now going to be made complete by the flesh?[d]4*Did you suffer so much for nothing—if in fact it was for nothing? 5*So then, does God supply you with the Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law or by hearing with faith?[e]
6*Just as Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness,[f] 7*then understand that those who have faith are Abraham’s sons. 8*Now the Scripture saw in advance that God would justify the Gentiles by faith and told the good news ahead of time to Abraham, saying, All the nations will be blessed through you.[g] 9*So those who have faith are blessed with Abraham, who had faith.[h]
Law and Promise
10*For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, because it is written: Everyone who does not continue doing everything written in the book of the law is cursed. 11*Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because the righteous will live by faith.[j] 12*But the law is not based on faith; instead, the one who does these things will live by them.[k] 13*Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, because it is written: Everyone who is hung on a tree is cursed.[l] 14*The purpose was that the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles by Christ Jesus, so that we could receive the promised Spirit through faith.
15*Brothers, I’m using a human illustration.[m] No one sets aside or makes additions to even a human covenant[n] that has been ratified. 16*Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say “and to seeds,” as though referring to many, but referring to one, and to your seed,[o] who is Christ. 17*And I say this: The law, which came 430 years later, does not revoke a covenant that was previously ratified by God[p] and cancel the promise. 18*For if the inheritance is from the law, it is no longer from the promise; but God granted it to Abraham through the promise.
The Purpose of the Law
19*Why then was the law given? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise was made would come. The law was put into effect through angels by means of a mediator. 20*Now a mediator is not for just one person, but God is one.21*Is the law therefore contrary to God’s promises? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that was able to give life, then righteousness would certainly be by the law. 22*But the Scripture has imprisoned everything under sin’s power,[q] so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23*Before this faith came, we were confined under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith was revealed. 24*The law, then, was our guardian[r] until Christ, so that we could be justified by faith. 25*But since that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26*for you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Sons and Heirs
27*For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ like a garment. 28*There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29*And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, heirs according to the promise.
Romans 4
4*Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed. 5*But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous,[e] his faith is credited for righteousness.
Matthew 7
Do not judge, so that you won’t be judged. 2 For with the judgment you use,[a] you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye but don’t notice the log in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and look, there’s a log in your eye? 5 Hypocrite! First take the log out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. 6 Don’t give what is holy to dogs or toss your pearls before pigs, or they will trample them with their feet, turn, and tear you to pieces.
Galatians 2:21King James Version (KJV)
21*I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
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