Is the Torah or the TaNaK Scripture?
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
In the old testament God said a lot of things existed that didn't exist. But would eventually . The word scriptures isn't even in the old testament. The word scripture is only used one time in one verse. And it is speaking of the future. The new testament is the scripture of truth.
[Dan 10:21
21 "But I will tell you what is noted in the Scripture of Truth. (No one upholds me against these, except Michael your prince.
[Rom 4:17
17 (as it is written, "I have made you a father of many nations") in the presence of Him whom he believed--God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;
The new testament is the Word of truth.
[Jhn 17:17-20
17 "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
18 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19 "And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
[Dan 10:21
21 "But I will tell you what is noted in the Scripture of Truth. (No one upholds me against these, except Michael your prince.
[Rom 4:17
17 (as it is written, "I have made you a father of many nations") in the presence of Him whom he believed--God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;
The new testament is the Word of truth.
[Jhn 17:17-20
17 "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
18 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19 "And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
This is good progress for you Squeaky.
I said
I have known this for years. Its to bad that you don't know it. I have tried to share it with you, but you keep rejecting all the new testament that I show you.
It is Revi'i (Fourth) the Third Month the Ninth Day, Boker (Morning), Yom (Day).
I have no problem with what you are sharing. It is my belief that you know more than you let on. But having an answer is not the same thing as teaching the truth. Now you have made a good attempt at both.
I said
A really good teacher finds out where someone is at in their walk and teaches accordingly. A confused teacher bounces around from old testament to new testament. You are double minded. Your trying to mix two different laws together. Old testament law and new testament law. They are different.
[1Co 3:1-3
1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual [people] but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.
2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able [to receive it], and even now you are still not able;
3 for you are still carnal. For where [there are] envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like [mere] men?
[Jas 1:5-8
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.
6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind.
7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord;
8 [he is] a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
What old testament law is I don't know. I know the Torah and Torah law. I do not know what new testament law is, if it exists. The question for me is does it.
Old testament law is the Torah. New testament law is the law of Christ. And keeping His commandments.
[Gal 6:2
2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
[Jhn 14:15, 21
15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. ...
21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
[Jhn 15:10
10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
[Gal 6:2
2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
[Jhn 14:15, 21
15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. ...
21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."
[Jhn 15:10
10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
It is Erev, Evening. It is Laylah, Night. It is the Third Month. It is the Tenth Day of the Month.
Very good. One approach to the Torah or to studying the Torah is the Ten Commandments or the Six Hundred and Thirteen Mitzvot. There are other ways to understand what is the Old Testament Law.
I said
The ten commandments were brought over to the new testament. The rest of the Torah was NOT.
It is Boker, Morning. Yom, Day. The Third Month. The Tenth Day.
Did God command us, the nation of Israel, anything else besides the Ten Commandments? Also, are there any more than these Ten Commandments found in the Torah?
I said
That is why you were kicked out of Christianity. You keep trying to justify the Torah for today. That is why you have fallen from grace.
[Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who [attempt to] be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
You are incorrect, but you are making loaded statements. To begin with I was not kicked out of Christianity as you say.
I said
Yes you were. You try to justify yourself as a believer by teaching the Torah.
[Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who [attempt to] be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
No. You are incorrect. I do teach the Torah. I have no problem with that. But I am not seeking to justify myself or trying to justify myself by so doing or in so doing.
I said
lololol That is an oxymoron. Your teaching something to others that you don't believe yourself.
The Torah is of, from, and by God, so I teach it to others.
Tnkrbl123!
New member
If you do not understand something as simple as that then you definately should not attempt to teach anyone anything until you at the very least learn the basics for yourself
The Third Month the Eleventh Day, Erev Evening Laylah Night.
The new covenant is not new testament scripture. This is basic.
Shalom. And God bless.
This is from a real Jew.
Originally Posted by Yoḥanon-benYaʿăqov
The rest of your thread is less than meaningless to me, but this particular paragraph needs to be addressed, because it is a bald faced lie.Unlike certain others, I actually am a Jew, and have been since the day I was born: 5 Sh’vat 5717 in Haifa, Eretz Israel.
I can tell you with absolute certainty that Jews DO NOT Proselytize; Jews DO NOT actively seek converts; Jews DO NOT SEEK converts at all; Jews DO NOT WANT converts; Jews DO NOT NEED converts; Jews ACTIVELY DISSUADE converts.
Jews are a family, converting to Judaism is joining our family. We don’t want or need any new members of our family. There is no need for any gentile to ever convert to Judaism, and in fact it is totally illogical.
In order to be considered a righteous gentile by the God of Israel, all one has to do is obey the Shevaʿ Mitzvot b’néy-Noaḥ (Seven Commandments of the descendants of Noah). Basically if anyone is merely a decent human being, he/she is probably obeying these Mitz’vot without even knowing he/she is doing it.
In order to LEGALLY convert to Judaism, a gentile has to jump through a whole lot of hoops just to be considered for eligibility for potential candidacy for the conversion process. A person cannot even apply for conversion unless they are sponsored by a certified Rabbi.
Different Rabbis have different requirements for sponsorship, but one absolute pre-requisite is the potential candidate must live in and be an active part
of a Jewish Community for a bare minimum of nine months. That’s just one pre-requisite for sponsorship.
Even if you do find a sponsor, that doesn’t mean that your application for conversion will ever be accepted. I know a gentleman who desperately wants to convert to Judaism, and has been actively trying for over ten years; in three different countries; has had six different sponsors; and his request has still not been accepted. But he still perseveres, and I can’t even begin to understand why. Converting to Judaism is a very difficult process, and very few ever last from start to finish.
It could very easily take more than two years just to acquire a sponsor. If by some chance your application for conversion is accepted, you then go through an average of three years of education before the legal portions even begin.
NO!!! JEWS DO NOT SEEK OR WANT CONVERTS!!!
As for the last sentence of the quote: I do not recall seeing the phrase hil’ḵot Mosheh (law of Moses) anywhere within the Hebrew Scriptures. Torah means: instruction, education, lesson, teaching – not “law.” If you are insinuating that Jews are not being obedient to our God given Commandments – Mitz’vot, please be more specific, we have quite a few of them to choose from
Originally Posted by Yoḥanon-benYaʿăqov
The rest of your thread is less than meaningless to me, but this particular paragraph needs to be addressed, because it is a bald faced lie.Unlike certain others, I actually am a Jew, and have been since the day I was born: 5 Sh’vat 5717 in Haifa, Eretz Israel.
I can tell you with absolute certainty that Jews DO NOT Proselytize; Jews DO NOT actively seek converts; Jews DO NOT SEEK converts at all; Jews DO NOT WANT converts; Jews DO NOT NEED converts; Jews ACTIVELY DISSUADE converts.
Jews are a family, converting to Judaism is joining our family. We don’t want or need any new members of our family. There is no need for any gentile to ever convert to Judaism, and in fact it is totally illogical.
In order to be considered a righteous gentile by the God of Israel, all one has to do is obey the Shevaʿ Mitzvot b’néy-Noaḥ (Seven Commandments of the descendants of Noah). Basically if anyone is merely a decent human being, he/she is probably obeying these Mitz’vot without even knowing he/she is doing it.
In order to LEGALLY convert to Judaism, a gentile has to jump through a whole lot of hoops just to be considered for eligibility for potential candidacy for the conversion process. A person cannot even apply for conversion unless they are sponsored by a certified Rabbi.
Different Rabbis have different requirements for sponsorship, but one absolute pre-requisite is the potential candidate must live in and be an active part
of a Jewish Community for a bare minimum of nine months. That’s just one pre-requisite for sponsorship.
Even if you do find a sponsor, that doesn’t mean that your application for conversion will ever be accepted. I know a gentleman who desperately wants to convert to Judaism, and has been actively trying for over ten years; in three different countries; has had six different sponsors; and his request has still not been accepted. But he still perseveres, and I can’t even begin to understand why. Converting to Judaism is a very difficult process, and very few ever last from start to finish.
It could very easily take more than two years just to acquire a sponsor. If by some chance your application for conversion is accepted, you then go through an average of three years of education before the legal portions even begin.
NO!!! JEWS DO NOT SEEK OR WANT CONVERTS!!!
As for the last sentence of the quote: I do not recall seeing the phrase hil’ḵot Mosheh (law of Moses) anywhere within the Hebrew Scriptures. Torah means: instruction, education, lesson, teaching – not “law.” If you are insinuating that Jews are not being obedient to our God given Commandments – Mitz’vot, please be more specific, we have quite a few of them to choose from